1
Et ce sont nos alliées ces Saoudiens?
N'avait-on pas invoquer les droits des femmes, la démocratie pour justifier notre intervention armée canadienne en Afghanistan?
Deux poids deux mesures.
C'est sûr que lorsque les pétro-dollars tombent sur la table, la démocratie et les droits de la femme prennent le bord.
Quel pays rétrograde!
Dirigeants riches parce qu'ils étaient assis sur un désert au sous-sol rempli de pétrole.
2
Et pourtant....ils sont nombreux à vouloir imposer la même loi chez nous!
3
En appel du verdict, elle pourra évoquer, en défense, qu'elle allait voter par anticipation pour les élections de 2015.
4
Dix coups de fouets pour ça? Hmmm. Une chance qu'elle ne conduisait pas un camion...
5
Le wahhabisme, dont Ben Laden et Al Qaeda s'inspire, veut retourner aux sources premières de l'Islam, c'est-à-dire les deux ou trois générations après Mohamet. Ils prétendent que la religion était pure à ce moment et que toute invention, spécialement venant de "l'ouest des Croisés", est mauvaise.
Suivons leur raisonnement jusqu'au bout: "Les femmes ne conduisaient pas de voitures au temps du prophète"
Réponse: "Les hommes non plus..."
6
« Curieux. On voit le "deux poids, deux mesures" des commentateurs sur ce site:
toute nouvelle concernant Israël recueille plus de 50 commentaires dans le temps de le dire. Toute nouvelle concernant des ignominies commises par les régimes islamiques passent sous silence. »
Il est assez rare que l'Arabie Séoudite mène des actions militaires contre ses voisins, ou de nature à déstabiliser la région, que je sache?
7
j'ai déjà eu une conversation édifiante avec un saoudien concernant cette interdiction. il m'a servi sa salade en me parlant de façon totalement condescendante, comme si j'avais 5 ans.
voici sa justification :
comme l'arabie saoudite est un pays désertique, les hommes saoudiens, qui adorent leurs femmes, préfèrent conduire leur(s) épouse(s) pour leur sécurité.
je lui ai rappelé que le téléphone cellulaire avait été inventé avant cette interdiction.
réponse :
en arabie saoudite, les femmes sont des reines !! et les reines ne conduisent pas.
la vérité :
un hadith dit que la femme doit rester à la maison. et sortir seulement avec l'autorisation de son époux.
le taux de répudiation en arabie saoudite est de 40%
les mariages polygamiques sont de 30%
le suicide chez les femmes atteint des records. il est déguisé en "surdose de médicaments"
les imams saoudiens écrivent de longues lettres dans les journaux sur la nécessité pour l'homme de battre sa/ses femme(s).
***
lire l'incontournable et magnifique texte de Wajiha Al-Howeidar, une féministe saoudienne :
‘‘J’arrêterai de revendiquer des droits pour la femme saoudienne : lorsque les femmes saoudiennes auront le droit de...
(la suite ici)
http://www.bladi.net/forum/193601-wajiha-al-howeidar/
8
Et pourquoi ces femmes veulent-elles immigrer ici et continuer leur traditionnel port du voile, et même, à nous l'imposer avec véhémence? !!!
9
Je ne suis pas pour le port du voile, mais croire que lorsque quelqu'un vous impose quelque chose parce qu'il s'affiche est ridicule.
De la même façon, du point de vue de ces gens, vous êtes impudique et vous leur imposez votre idéologie.
Ce n'est qu'une question de point de vue. Ces femmes ne vous imposent pas leur voile, c'est vous qui en êtes offensée, là se trouve la grande différence.
D'ailleurs, on dit souvent que la seule chose qui n'est pas permise dans une société libre, c'est le droit de ne pas être choqué.
Je crois qu'un cours d'anthropologie ou même de philosophie pourrait faire du bien à tous et chacun.
Ceci dit, je ne suis pas pour le port du voile et c'est pour moi une forme de soumission de la femme par rapport à l'homme, mais de croire qu'elle vous l'impose, de vous placer sur la défensive, ne règlera rien. Ces femmes sont convaincues de leur bon droit, les mettre au bûcher comme de mauvaises personnes ne les convaincra pas de retirer le voile ou la burqua. Acceptation, information et intégration sont les clefs, sinon c'est l'aliénation et la création de ghetto sociaux.
On peut aussi mettre des règlements anti-burqua, mais ils doivent être assortis de mesures souples, sinon vous condamnez ces femmes à vivre recluses chez elle, l'inverse même de l'intégration. En voulant atteindre un but, vous vous en éloignerez peut-être...
10
je n'ai pas les chiffres pour l'arabie saoudite.
mais en jordanie, beaucoup plus démocratique :
- 67% des femmes sont battues. 90% des femmes croient que leur époux est en droit de les battre - pour 60% d'entre elle, rater un souper est une raison suffisante pour être battue. 15% des femmes sont violées par leur mari.
11
Et voilà le mot, aussitôt qu'une personne n'est pas pour le port du voile, elle est xénophobe!!!
12
(...) ne comprenez-vous pas par mes commentaires que je ne suis pas xénophobe mais ‘‘voilophobe’’, de par ces femmes de toutes origines (même québécoises) qui insistent à être je ne sais quoi et se voiler le visage.
Je maintiens que par mesure de sécurité pour tous et chacun, nul ne devrait être autorisé à être en public le visage caché et en plus ces personnes portent des gants donc vraiment pas identifiables.
Alors je vous assure que je ne suis pas xénophobe...
et vous que prêchez-vous par cette ''liberté'' de se dissimuler?
13
De plus en plus de femmes d'Arabie Saoudite vont defier l'ordre réactionnaire islamique de ce pays.
Comme l'ont fait les "suffragettes" en Occident, il y a plus de cent ans !
14
Buying Saudi oil finances this kind of garbage.....bring on the Oilsands..
15
The only reason Saudi Arabia is allowed to get away with this kind of brutality and discrimination is because the have oil. Under our capitalistic, free enterprise system, corporations and governments are willing to turn a blind eye to these barbaric practices in return for cheap oil..
16
So socialistic, non-capitalistic governments refuse to buy oil from backward states?.
17
The Saddam Hussein regime was nothing, compared to the Saudi regime.
Human Rights and Equal Rights are important to us, as long as money and natural resources are not in the way....then, it becomes meaningless.
I think the word I'm looking for is, Hypocrisy!
18
You can stop a person, but you can't stop an idea. You really think 10 lashes is suddenly going to quiet down all these women? Stubborn old Muslims.
19
When will Obama order the invasion of Saudi Arabia?
NEVER!
20
I'm an atheist and I thank God for it.
21
Saudi Arabia is a medieval oppressive theocracy. It should be boycotted by all the so called civilized countries in the world.
The "friendship" between the u.s.a. and the Saudis show how hypocritical and selective the Americans are when preaching "democracy and freedom".
22
Yes and when there was a civil uprising in Bahrain earlier this year, Saudi forces went in to quash it as Bahrain is a naval military base.
The US, Israel and Saudi are partners.
23
These are the same people who have been condemning the Syrian government over the past 6 months and offering it "advice" about human rights and freedoms.
If we continue to give our support to the extremist armed groups in Syria, a secular country will become another Saudi Arabia led by fanatics who use Islam in their own twisted ways.
24
So, you would rather give support to the oppressive Syrian Gov't and allow them to kill civilians in an outright attempt to keep power at any cost.
I imagine you are a supporter of Khadaffi for the same reasons and are for the regime in Yemen.
The hell with democracy and down with human rights. Carry on.
Just don't tell me that you would vote NDP or Liberal here in Cananda because although I tend to think you would, it would be the straw that broke the leftist's back, if you get my drift..
25
This is YOUR opinion of what is going on in Syria as reported by one-sided media.
The Syrian government is NOT killing civilians, the armed gangs are.
The protesters are Armed and not "peaceful" as we are led to believe.
The government is dealing with The Muslim Brotherhood among other groups (and yes, including gangs) who are attepting to take the country back to the stone age,
If these groups lived among us, We would refer to them as terrorists, unfortunately we are giving them all our support..
[Ici, aussi, on n'aime pas trop trop les protestataires. Se souvenir de ce qui leur est arrivé lors du G-8-20 ! Et ils n'étaient même pas armés!]
26
How is this even happening in 2011?
This is disgusting… No one, man or woman should be lashed for a "crime", that's barbaric and in this particular case makes the people dolling out the punishment look like misogynistic psychopaths…
Why is this being allowed? Why isn't there a global response to stop this? I realize it's a "kingdom" but surly the people there are not so lost in the dark ages that they see this as acceptable… religion or not this is absurd. Saudi people please stand up and fight this terrible injustice!
[Et la lapidation. Couper le mains des «voleurs» (qui sont généralement au gouvernement mais à qui on ne coupe rien)]
27
Sadly this is progress. 5 years ago this may have not made the news (...) At least they reconize now this is a law that must be changed now...
28
Because oil companies get rich, their CEO's get rich and travel to the ME and make nice with the regime to continue making profits and governments (taxpayers) pay money to these regimes to build army bases to fund the weapons industry.
29
You ask why???
one of the main reasons , is Saudi Arabia royal family is protected by the US.
other wise people would have rebelled something like 30 -or 40 years ago to out them as they were doing before the American started protecting them. and for their protection the Saudis agreed to sell their oil only in American dollars. if the Americans put up any form of a stink .
the Saudis would probably go the same route as Libya and Iraq and start the process of selling their oil in a currency other then the American dollar.
it easier for the American to ignore the Saudis then to say something otherwise it might have dire consequences for the Americans..
the only thing keeping the American dollar afloat is that all oil is being FORCED to be sold in US dollar.
force as in why Iraq and Libya were the real reason for the invasion.
to keep oil sold only in US dollar --
as we would be soon invaded if Canada suggested sell our oil in Canadian dollars or any dollar as was Iraq and Libya were in the process of doing ).
30
Can you imagine the outrage from the United States if this happened in Iran? It's somehow OK in Saudi Arabia though. Hypocrites..
31
Conservative religious folk are bad news. No matter if they are Muslim, Catholic, Jewish, or god/ Alah/ w/e you want to call it, knows what.
No matter what they are all suppressive in their own way.
But, women being banned from driving is the most ridiculous thing I have heard.
Frankly men are more likely be 'tempted into sin' by being able to go where they please, as they don't have to carry the resulting foetus for the next 9 months/ care for an (un)wanted baby.
Women of Saudi Arabia, if Camels aren't banned I say you take to the streets on camels and horse back to make a point!
And Saudi Arabia get with the times, men and women are equal, deserve equal rights, freedoms, opportunities and treatment!
We don't live in the stone ages!
31
That is an awfully wide brush that you are using to tar all "Conservative religious folk" with.
Saudi Arabia allowed slavery until the 1960s, putting them about 100 years behind the United States and several decades more than that behind Britain.
"Conservative religious folk" in North America may view some recent social developments (like gay marriage) with squinty eyes, but to equate them with an ultra conservative Muslim country that flogs, maims and beheads criminal offenders, demonstrates a failure to grasp the enormous difference between religion as it is practiced in Saudi Arabia and religion as it is practiced in North America.
[Les «conservateurs» se ressemblent tous mais ils n'ont pas le même pouvoir au même moment. Les talibans interdiront les chants d'oiseaux et amputeront les prisonniers. Ce qu'auraient fait les «conservateurs» catho il y a quelques centaines d'années. Quoique ils n'étaient pas assez cinglés et primitifs pour interdire les chants d'oiseaux mais pour couper les oreilles et le nez d'une femme adultère, si. Les «conservateurs» modernes ne peuvent plus empêcher les noirs d'aller dans les toilettes des blancs mais ils aimeraient bien réformer moralement les jeunes délinquants en les envoyant à vie dans des prisons pour adultes. Ne vous faites aucune illusion. Seul le pouvoir qu'ils ont ou n'ont pas sur la majorité les retient. ]
[On peut chercher et trouver une différence entre les «conservateurs» religieux et les «réactionnaires» politiques. Les conservateurs sont toujours religieux. Pour eux, la religion est un des piliers de la société avec l'armée. Contrôler les cerveaux dès l'enfance tandis que la police, l'armée et les patrons d'entreprise contrôleront les corps ensuite. Quoi de plus édifiant que de voir le général Videla communier. Émouvant! ]
32
You are now entering the Twilight Zone.....
[Avec les «humains» tous les jours.]
33
«This i snot about oil, it's about their religious and backward cultural beliefs.»
No...it's about oil. Nice try.
Our desperation for oil results in our leaders turning a blind eye to this.
We are so ready to condemn countries like China for their human rights issues, but squat is said about this to the Saudis.
Why isn't Big Baby Baird standing up at the G20 meetings or Canada's rep at the UN saying anything about the Saudis treatment of women?
Oh ya...we need the oil. No need to piss them off..
34
Women in Saudi Arabia for the first time are now able to Vote. All they need to do when they do so is show a valid drivers license.
35
If, under Islam, a women is worth half of a man, she should get half the punishment a male would get for driving without a license.
36
I read a lot about Saudis society being "a throw back to medieval times".
Remember that less than a century ago, our society banned women from voting and practiced a whole list of social taboos limiting women's rights in a so-called free and democratic society.
Saudi women have a fight on their hands, just like our grandmothers, and they deserve our support, but they will need to earn this victory on their own if change is seen by the ignorant power-mongers in their country to be legitimate. .
37
I can't imagine what will happen to that country when it runs out of oil.
One thing for sure. The Monarchy will have put aside enough money to leave that country and live elsewhere..
38
Please refresh my memory. Is this 2011?
39
It's 1311 hiding behind a burka
40
And we spend our time bickering about Israel!
I wonder what a protester would get in Saudi Arabia if they protested this kind of human rights abuse?
It was only last year at the G20 in Toronto that these Saudi "Kings" were in town, where were the protestors then?
Oh right, they were too busy vandalising the city and fighting Capitalism???!!
Instead, we hear them here in Canada and the US protesting against our governemnts for letting someone come to Canada like Dick Chaney; blaming him for torturing terrorists that care nothing about rights or life or the innocent?
Canadian born terrorists like Omar Khadr get sympathy from human rights protesters. I say if they want to make a statement go and make your case in a country that doesn't care about their citizens, like Syria or Iran, then try coming back to Canada
in one piece.
So where are the women's groups in Canada?
Why are they not down at the Saudi embassy demonstrating? Where are the feminists, the trade unions or the human rights advocates?
They are all typically complaining about Israel and Canada and the US. Very hypocritical!! Wake up people!!!..
41
Makes you wonder who really is jerking the puppet strings about this stuff
42
Conservative Christians go to Church, feed the poor, volunteer their time to good causes, help the homeless, protest practices harmful to women (i.e. abortion) [?], etc.
Only leftists try to equate conservative Christians with these type of cultures, however, everyone else knows there are no similarities..
43
Maybe you should ask the Hutterite communities ( about as conservative a church as can be found in Canada) if their female members are allowed to drive?.
44
and that, ladies and gentlemen, is what is to be expected when (any) religion gets a foothold in government.
Nothing less than full, transparent separation of church and state is a MUST in any society that hopes to advance to its potential.
It's apparent that Saudi women will be the ones to change that society from the inside out, as their men (yes I am male) are way too invested in controlling everything and want to play 'patriarch'. An enormous superiority complex. Quaint but not cute
45
It's a good thing this country doesn't try to sell their oil for too much.
If they did, we would have to conquer them to promote democracy and human rights.
I guess as long as they continue to sell us their oil for what we're asking, women/humans will continue to have no rights.
46
You hippies still want to protest the XL Pipeline or would you rather support regimes
like this!.
47
You know I think it would be a good idea if a group of street players would reenact this lashing in front of the Saudi embassy every day at say noon. At the end of the performance they could pass the hat for donations to keep it going. I know that I would contribute..
48
«I wonder if the Saudi's censored this item on CTV. Good job CBC.»
CTV is owned by Bell and Bell has a big stake in Saudi. Hence the reason for CTV not having coverage. Bell does not want to upset the King or the religious leaders.
49
Honestly, 10 lashes is nothing. She will be fully clothed while it happens, and with a smaller lash than is used on males.
I hope she laughs the whole way through it, and drives away from the site when it's over.
50
LiberalLoser wrote:
« Conservative Christians go to Church, feed the poor, volunteer their time to good causes, help the homeless, protest practices harmful to women (i.e. abortion), etc.»
Or they claim to. The vast majority of nominal Christians are practicing Christians for about an hour a week.
Since when was a surgical abortion any more harmful to women than a C-section or even normal child birth?
Your self-righteous, moralistic slant is coming through.
*
« Only leftists try to equate conservative Christians with these type of cultures, however, everyone else knows there are no similarities. »
I am a rightist and I associate fundamentalist Christians with fundamentalists of all religions--the similarities are frightening. Belief does not give anyone the right to impose their imagined or brain-washed morals on others.
The only moral law that makes sense is the "Golden Rule".
51
How can any culture or society can expect to progress and prosper by keeping HALF of its population in ignorance, dependance and oppression?
I asked my husband one day, "Can you imagine if our society was so backward and oppressive to women that you had to take on every last responsibility in our lives? From our finances up to and including whether or not I could leave the darn house by myself?"
He frankly shuddered and I don't blame him. Neither of us could imagine living with that level of enforced dependency.
Let's hope Saudi women -- and all the world's women -- achieve the rights they deserve and that their society's NEED to progress in the 21st century.
52
I heard a long time ago that the excuse for ban on women
drivers was because if women where allowed to drive alone.
They might get injured in anr accident and that there
would be no male relative present avaiable to
give consent for the medical personal to remove
her clothes for treatment.
Now of course this is rediculous as one would
have to assume the male relaltive would be
alive and conscious.
But can anyone confirm this?
53
My wife worked for a female Arab doctor. She treated many of the more conservative families, and wasn't allowed to examine women without the husband present, if I remember correctly.
The reason she was so popular is, again, if memory serves, if she was male she couldn't even touch the female patients.
54
While the Saudi treatment of Saudi women is without doubt utterly inexcusable and appalling, the treatment of Third-world foreign workers by both Saudi men and women is even more appalling and degrading.
Withholding pay; physical, racial and sexual abuse of Bangladeshi, Phillipino and Thai maids and Pakistani, Bangladeshi construction workers;
my cousin who once worked there met a Bangladeshi abandoned by his Saudi employer for three days in the parched wilderness without food and water to tend his herd.
But the abusers are not limited to Saudi men, Saudi women are well know to abuse female employees with physical violenece too.
As a person of conscience who derives ancestry from a Third-world country myself, I have to say that Third-world workers, including Muslim ones, are immeasurably better treated in the supposedly more "racist' West or even the supposedly more "racist" Israel that I gave visited.
They were also better treated by the non-Gulf Arabs in places like Libya and Iraq.
My disgust at the treatment of Saudi women is somewhat muted by my distaste of their own attitude to others..
55
What a rotten country. Canada should have nothing to do with Saudi Arabia including banning their citizens and corporations from owning or operating or sharing in any Canadian business. We should be doing everything we can to ensure their citizens have rights, freedoms and equality..
56
that whole regime is an embarrassment to humanity. from religion to politics to daily life, it is a backwards mess. ...all thanks to mythology run amok...
57
Here in Canada, we have upgrade from floggers, to tasers.
Same difference though.
Guess what...your Still all slaves...and will be abused as such.
wakie wakie....sheep..
58
Time to beat the drums of war and invade this 2 bit country to save the women of Saudi Arabia just as we did in Afghanistan. We can't let this happen.
Oh right , Saudi Arabia is on OUR SIDE.
Well aint that just dandy. I guess it's back to Iran and the way women are treated there, eh..
59
The term "Iron my shirt" belongs to the conservatives.
Anyway, this is Canada, who here care,s. If the majority here do not care if they starve to death.
In a country where they practice public beheadings, whats a few lashes on a "convicted criminal".
Like they say here, there and everywhere. driving is not a right.
I think our law and order government would approve.
60
Draconian to say the least, however not as draconian as fourteen years imprisonment for smoking Marijuana..
61
Saudi Arabia moves to censor Canadian TV ad
http://www.ethicaloil.org/news/saudi-arabia-moves-to-censor-canadian-tv-ad/
62
It's not here in Canada so I really don't care. They have the right to do in their country what they please. It is not up to the west to police the world and tell people what they should and should not be doing. Try it here and that's a different story..
63
Atheism is a religion [?] of "do whatever you please with no consequences or consideration for what is right and what is wrong"
64
'Atheism' comes from the prefix "a-" meaning "not" and "theism" meaning "belief in a higher being."
How can atheism be a religion????.
65
Why is the article describing Saudi Arabia as an "ultraconservative" nation?
This isn't ultraconservative, it's gender oppression.
Calling it an "ultraconservative" nation softens the gender oppression to the rest of the world, so everyone doesn't complain too loudly about it to their governments.
We'd rather buy Saudi oil without the guilt of knowing that we're supporting oppression of women. As others have suggested, bring on the electric cars!
This has nothing to do with religion.
It is all about a male society of domination, treating women as third-rate citizens.
[Ben sûr que ça a affaire à une religion. Et le contrôle de celle-ci. Et ce que les contrôleurs veulent faire faire aux citoyens-marionnettes! Rien de nouveau. Sauf pour jeunes esprits qui viennent d'arriver au monde.]
This has nothing to do with culture.
[Ben sûr que ça a affaire à une culture. Comme le cannibalisme social ailleurs et dans une autre époque. Ce qui est considéré «normal» par les citoyens d'une région - même si c'est choquant pour les citoyens d'une autre.]
Have the men follow the same oppressive laws & rules, then we're being ethnocentric when we oppose this.
All this news about Saudi women getting the vote is such a sham. They may get the right to vote, but women's right to vote will be different than a man's.
It won't count for as much, or a man will have to accompany her into the voting booth to make sure the poor woman can figure out how to vote "properly", etc.
The woman's right to vote in Saudi Arabia will be tainted and perverted.
[Quand on a «permis» ici, aux femmes de voter, on s'inquiétait de la dégradation morale que l'excitation de la politique pouvait causer à leur âme fragile (même chose pour la danse et le vélo). Des désordes dans les familles et des chicanes de ménage qui suivrait. Et si elles allaient «annuler» le vote de leur mari!]
This is gender oppression, clear and obvious. Calling it "ultraconservative" is a cover-up, and part of the oppression.
66
Can't argue with you that forbidding women to drive "without permission" is gender oppression, pure and simple.
However, this gender oppression is begin imposed and rationalized by male members of Saudi society who are indeed "ultra conservative" in the plain meaning of the term.
Other Muslim countries do not discriminate against women in this way and I tend to suspect that the Qu'ran probably does not directly address a women's right to drive automobiles.
Hence, you are likely correct that religion has little or nothing to do with this ban on woman driver's, either.
However, a country that still adheres slavishly to a 7th century criminal code that requires it to flog, maim or behead citizens for offences that would draw nothing more than fines or jail time in most other countries, can reasonably be described as being "ultra conservative".
[Ou, si on n'aime pas le mot, disons: arriéré!]
67
Unreal! It'a hard to believe that in the 21st century governments still treat people this way. Canada should sever diplomatic ties with Saudi Arabia. We should stop dealing with them in any way until they recognize women's rights..
68
« This does not reflect the teachings of Islam. This is a perverse interpretation »
Well it would seem to reflect the norm in Saudi society which holds on to a fundamentalist view of quranic teaching. Perhaps you can cite the verses that they use and give the westerners here the real interpretation or at least yours, because when one collects and reads all the verses plus hadith, it would support the Saudi position on women..
69
found guilty of driving without permission?????
seriously makes me sick. I wish I could go over there and provide support the victims of this atrocity. stay strong!!.
[Mieux! Elle a conduit «sans permission» mais elle ne pouvait pas en avoir puisqu'il est interdit (voir le sens de ce mot) et illégal (synonyme d'illégale) pour elle de conduire. Comme toute personne qui enfreint les lois, elle sera punie.]
Il y a 7 ans
