3209. COMMENTAIRES DU PEUPLE. AFGHANISTAN. VISITE DE FAMILLES DE SOLDATS MORTS

1

Propagande...

LE Canada n'a pas d'Affaires là...On y a perdu 10 milliards..

On en arait besoin en ce moment de ces 10 milliards perdus pour absolument rien..

Alors que les occidentaux et responsables de l'ONU ont été accusé de manupulaition du vote et de fraude, alors que nous avons soi-disant flambé des fortunes pour l'installation d'une démocratie là bas, il est plus que clair que nous devons nous retirer de ce lieu dans els plus brefs délais..

Que ceux qu'ils veulent continuer qu'ils aillent se faire embaucher par l'armée amércaine..

LE Canada n'a pas d'Affaires là..

Qu'on vienen faire la guerre à la corruption ici..

2

L'armée canadienne doit quitter ce pays au plus vite, on a pas a défendre un pays corrompu par les autorité afgh.

3

Il est bien possible qu'il y ait 9 familles qui souhaitent que la mission continu au delà de 2011, mais ce sont 145 Canadiens et Canadiennes qui sont mort dans se conflits, alors quel est leur opinion à eux?????

Et puis au delà des familles des soldats ce sont TOUT les Canadiens qui vont décider du retrait des soldats et au dernières nouvelles la majorité d'entre eux souhaitaient le retrait (et ce bien avant 2011).

On ne peut pas questionner la motivation de ces familles, elles ont vécu un drame et sont ébranlées, par contre on peut fortement questionner la motivation de ceux qui ont organisé ce "photo opp", quelque jour seulement après l'intervebtion d'Hillary Clinton.

4

Je peu comprendre que ces familles endeuillées veuillent que la mission se poursuive au-delà de 2011. Car cela donne un sens profond au décès d’un fils ou d’une fille tant aimé et chéri. Sinon, ils auraient l’impression qu’ils sont morts pour rien.

Cependant, le manque de transparence et les mensonges du parti politique au pouvoir à Ottawa… ainsi que la tradition guerrière Afghane… la corruption répétitive dans les mœurs de ce pays… les bavures commissent par les forces de l’OTAN… tout cela mine les chances de succès de cette mission. De plus, on est à un cheveu de perdre l’appui de la population afghane.

Et lorsque la population afghane sera fatiguée des forces de l’OTAN se sera la fin. On aura perdu.

5

Il y a un mois je disais que nos troupes resterait a la demande des E-Us

presque tous ont desaprouver mon opignon.

retrait etais prevue 1 en 2009, 2 en2010, 3 en 2011

maintenat ce seras quand pour un sacre piline a petrole de l'adriatique au golf que les E-Us veules et il n'en ont rien a cire de la democratie et de metre des pantin a leur solde et des chef de clans traficant de drogue AU POUVOIR DE CE PAYS ET SI POUR CES CHEFS DE CLANS LES e-uS SONT UN OUTILS POUR ETRE AU POUVOIRS IL LE PRENE,

Je compatie avec les famille qui ont perdue un fils ou une fille, ou encore qui ont ete blesse et devrons vire avec les seguelles de ses blessures,

mais c'est pas pour des ecoles ou la justice et la liberte cette guerre et ce peuples ne nous a jamais menacer ou tue nos enfant dans nos cour d'ecoles,

l'histoires montre que les plus grand progres humains ont ete fait dans la paix et l'echange entre les peuples...

6

Nous sommes là depuis presque 10 ans maintenant, on y a brûlé beaucoup plus de 10 milliards qu'on aurait pu utiliser pour lutter contre la pauvreté et payer une partie de la dette.

Il est temps qu'on sorte de là, il est temps aussi de questionner la raison d'être et l'utilisation exacte que fait le fédéral d'un budget annuel de 20 milliards pour la "défense", budget qui sera haussé à 22 milliards, quand nous ne serons plus en Afghanistan. Il serait temps que le fédéral nous explique comment il se fait que le budget de la défense continuera à être aussi gigantesque quand l'Afghanistan sera chose du passé. On sait que les réformistes aiment l'uniforme, mais cela fait cher pour parader.

7

Les victimes canadiennes sont à une ou deux exceptions près des soldats. Un soldat sait qu'il peut y rester, ceux qui sont morts ont risqué et perdu. Ce n'est pas en continuant cette guerre que nous donnerions un "sens" à leur mort, quel sens ? Encore plus de morts, ne me semble pas donner un sens à quoi que ce soit. Les familles vont devoir se résigner à ce que leur enfant ou conjoint soit décédé dans le cadre d'une guerre perdue d'avance, la prolonger ne ferait qu'augmenter nos pertes et nos coûts.

8

Quel sens y a t il à envoyer nos enfants aller sauter sur des bombes en Afghanistan..

Il y a plusieurs années un de mes enfants qui allait à l'école privée sur la rive-sud de Montréal avait été approché par des militaires pour s'enrôler dans l'Armée..

Inutile que sa mère et moi lui avons expliqué qu'on ne mettait pas des enfants au monde pour els envoyer tuer à la guerre...

9

Le mandat du Canada en Afghanistan est un mandat de l'ONU. Il faut absolument finir le travail sinon les Taliban vont revenir en force et réouvrir des camps de terroriste pour exporter la violence. Cette violence si elle n'est pas contenu à la source, nous devrons y faire face ici au Québec et au Canada tôt ou tard . Les soldats Canadiens et Québécois qui sont mort la-bas sont des héros qui ont donné leur vie afin de protéger la nôtre y compris la vôtre Madame. Tenir des propos comme les vôtres c'est inapproprié et ne mène qu'à une situation pire qu'actuellement.

10

Mon fils est dans l'armé et actuellement en mission à l'étranger. Je dois vous dire que les missions accomplis par les forces armées sont importantes et nécessaire. Ces hommes et ces femmes servent notre liberté et notre démocratie. Ces objectifs sont nobles et indispensables. Le services dans les forces est indéniablement un plus pour la société. Au contraire, vous devriez encourager vos enfants à servir vos concitoyens. Si nos pères n'avais pas combattu les nazis, le monde serais différents aujourd'hui et certainement pas à notre avantage.

11

Une armée existe pour défendre le pays en cas de guerre. Envahir un autre pays, c'est de l'occupation, sans compter qu'on a jamais été attaqué par des afghans. Çà ressemble plus à une décision politique pour plaire à nos voisins. Il faut aussi remarquer que nos voisins ont attendu qu'un de leurs navires soit coulé à la dernière guerre pour combattre l'Allemagne, comme quoi on ne se mouille pas trop quand une autre armée est puissante. Par contre, je comprend les familles des victimes qui n'ont pas le pouvoir d'empêcher ou de contester des décisions douteuses de nos gouvernements. Nos soldats ont fait leurs devoirs et en ce sens, je suis fier d'eux.

12

Pour justifier les morts et nos pertes, il faut continuer de mourir de la même façon ou un façon similaire. C'est l'argument faible, mais c'est ça que beaucoup de monde pense.

Personnellement j'aime plus l'accent sur dialogue diplomatique , il faut discuter avec l'ennemie ou au moins faire un effort de les rapprocher un petit peut. Même si ils s'appelle terroriste.

Peut-être nous aurions besoin de changer le sens de terroriste. Ni les participants en guerre sont parfaitement correcte. Il faut voir les deux sens.

Peut-être terroriste veut dire pays qui vent d'armements au dictateurs pour le profit, pays qui possède toujours l'arsenal nucléaire capable de sauté la terre entièrement vingt cinq fois. Pays qui consomme les ressources et de l'énergie mal-proportionnée de sa taille. Pays qui utilise beaucoup de propagande, qui ne suis pas les nations unis en déclenchée la guerre en raisons faussement présumer. Peut-être nous examinons la définition de terroriste.

Ça semble que plusieurs pays méritons ce titre de terroriste, mais j'espère qu'ils peut regardez eux même et lâcher les armements et munitions pour quelques semaines d'armistice en discutons les termes d'un paix ou compromise de pouvoir, même si il n'y aura pas, au moins peut-être le discussion résultera en détente.

dix ans de munitions n'a pas accomplis les objectifs (quoi que ça sois) , alors essaie donc quelque choses d'autre qu'envoyer d'autres jeunes garçons au frontière de la guerre d'action violent. Quel mauvaise façon de terminé sa vie.

13

Si le terrorisme vous empêche de dormir, ce n'est pas mon cas. Nos soldats ne protègent ni votre vie, ni la mienne. Ils sont là pour des raisons qui n'ont rien à voir avec notre sécurité sauf évidemment notre sécurité économique, ce qui est une autre histoire et la véritable histoire.

Je ne suis pas très perméable à la propagande des gouvernements. Quand on dépense 20 milliards de l'argent des contribuables pour aller jouer à la guerre, il faut bien trouver des histoires à raconter pour tenter de la justifier. Le terrorisme a le dos un peu trop large à mon goût et il y a bien des choses plus intelligentes et plus efficaces que nous pourrions faire pour en venir à bout. Le combattre comme nous le faisons est absolument inutile et ne le fera pas disparaître au contraire. Si vous n'avez toujours pas compris, vous ne comprendrez jamais.

Pour ce qui concerne les héros et l'héroïsme, je ne vois malheureusement rien d'héroïque à sauter sur une mine en plein milieu de nulle part dans un pays où nous n'avons rien à faire. Je trouve cela triste comme je trouve triste la mort, surtout lorsqu'elle aurait pu être évitée, surtout quand elle fauche une jeune vie. Un soldat est payé pour servir de chair à canon éventuelle, il n'est pas obligé d'être là, c'est son choix, je trouve ce choix malheureux, mais je n'y peux rien.

14

Vous comparez des pommes et des oranges. La 2e guerre et l'Afghanistan ne sont pas du tout, mais alors là pas du tout comparables.

Nous n'avons pas été attaqués par l'Afghanistan et nous n'avons aucun exemple à donner à qui que ce soit. Quand je lis des gens qui localement votent pour des gouvernements de droite qui s'acharnent à mettre la hache dans le peu de démocratie qui nous reste et que ces mêmes personnes nous font de grands discours sur les valeurs démocratiques qu'il faut paraît-il exporter et imposer à ceux qui n'en veulent pas, je me dis qu'Einstein avait bien raison lorsqu'il affirmait : "Deux choses sont infinies : l'Univers et la bêtise humaine. Mais en ce qui concerne l'Univers, je n'en ai pas encore acquis la certitude absolue". Oui, il avait bien raison.

15

Notre fils a servi en afganistan avec nos braves soldats du Québec.Ce qui ma vraiement décue du Québec c est le peu d appuie que le peuple a donner a ses fils et filles qui cobattent l extrémiste mulsulmans sur leur terre avant qu ils arrivent ici.Et dire que vous avez peur d un voille qui cache le visage dans votre province (accomodements raisonable) Je sympatise avec les famille de nos soldats et je sais ce qui les blesse encore plus c est le peu de soutien qu ils recoivent des québequois. Regardez juste un peu comment ces barbares traite le enfants les filles et les femmes.Allez vous attendre qu ils soient chez nous au Québec?

16

Il est surprenant de lire les propos de certains d'entre vous. Les commentaires comme "le Canada n'a pas d'affaire là", "nous n'avons pas été attaqué par l'Afghanistan", "c'est le problème des Américains", "l'armée conduit une opération d'occupation" me font croire que les gens ont la mémoire très courte. Ces mêmes commentaires nous les avons entendus à la fin des années 30 et début des années 40. Soixante-dix ans plus tard, la grande majorité de la population mondiale reconnait qu'il fallait prendre des mesures pour mettre fin au Nazisme. Chez nous, il aura fallu que des sous-marins allemands naviguent dans les eaux du St-Laurent pour commencer à croire qu'après tout, la menace était réelle.

La situation est certainement différente aujourd'hui mais il n'en demeure pas moins qu'il existe une idéologie chez certain extrémistes islamiste qui peut être comparé au Nazisme de la deuxième guerre mondiale. Menace réelle ou pas? Allez donc savoir. Il appert cependant que la communauté internationale croit qu’elle est réelle cette menace. Lorsque les Nations-Unies sanctionnent une intervention militaires et que de plus les autorités du pays hôte la supporte, il est complètement erroné et trompeur de parler d'occupation militaire. Pour moi une occupation militaire est une occupation comme celle qu’ont connue la France, la Hollande et la Belgique durant la deuxième guerre mondiale. Il est aussi facile de rester indifférent a ce qui se passe dans le monde et de se dire que "nous n'avons pas d'affaire là". Bien sûr que l'on pourrait rester confortablement chez nous, la tête profondément entrée dans le sable, et se dire que tout va bien. Le problème c'est que nous sommes malheureusement, en raison de notre statut de puissance économique (et démocratique), une des nations sur lesquelles les pays a la recherche de stabilité, comptent. Malheureusement, pour plusieurs de nos citoyens, tout ce qui compte vraiment c'est notre petit confort et nos proches immédiats. Tout ce qui se passe à plus de 5, 50 ou, au grand maximum, 500 km de chez eux n'a aucune importance et la misère des autres, ce n'est pas leur affaires. La solidarité sociale et l'humaniste prend fin à l'endroit précis ou leur champs de vision s'arrête. Je trouve cela déplorable et triste.

17

Pour commencer j'aimerais rendre hommage à tous les soldats canadiens et ce d'où qu'ils viennent qui ont servis et qui continuent à servir en Afghanistans. Je leur dis haut et fort: vous pouvez être fiers de votre travail. Et j'aimerais dire à quel point j'ai honte du peu d'appui que vous avez reçus au Québec alors que vous le méritez tant.

Quant à ceux qui croient que vous n'avez pas d'affaires en Afghanistan, dites-vous bien que leur aveuglément n'est pas différent de celui qui s'opposaient à la présence de nos soldats en Angleterre lors de la dernière guerre mondiale. Ai-je besoin d'en ajouter plus?

Maintenant je ne crois pas que le Canada doive maintenir sa présence en Afghanistan, du moins sous sa forme actuelle. L'administration Obama n'est plus un partenaire fiable et ils faut se méfier de son manque de volonté dans la poursuite de la guerre contre le terrorisme islamiste. Qui peut vraiment faire confiance à un Général en Chef qui a accepté le Prix Nobel de la Paix? Qui désormais compte le plus à ses yeux: ses soldats ou sa réputation de pacifiste?

Rester oui, mais accomplir un autre rôle et s'assurer que l'administration Obama ne nous poignarde pas dans le dos.

18

LE mandat en Afghanistan n'a jamais été de rester à Vitam et Ternam, ça fait 10 ans là...

Faut cesser le niaisage, et comparer les afghans à l'allemagne NAzis,faut arrêter là... c'est un des pays les plus pauvres de la planète, ils n'ont que l'opium et le Hachich pour se financer et jamais ils n' attaqueront aucun pays...

Mccrystal a dit avant Noel qu' en Afghanistan quelqu'un qui avait beaucoup voyagé c'était quelqu'un qui était allé à cent kilomètres de chez lui...

Donc imaginez venir au Canada faire la Guerre et venir nous occuper , où vont-ils prendre els armes, les avions les bateaux, ils ne font pas encore la téléportation...Sur ces caps de roche au milieu de nullepart..Une majorité d' afghans ne sauraient même pas pointer le Canada sur une carte et ne savent rpobavlemnt pas que la terre est ronde..

Qui je sais ils font peur car c'Est un peuple insoumis, qui n'ont peur et rien ni de personne, et qu'ils ont battu les envahisseurs, Britanniques Russes etc....

MAis ils n'ont jamais conquis personne.

Et je comprends qu'on veut aider les pétrolières amércaines à passer un pipeline sur ce territoire..MAis ceux qui veulent vriament aider les pauvres pétrolière n'ont qu'à leur envoyer leur don par la poste.

Je comprends qu'on est des peureux mais quand même faut pas charrier..

19

des vie perdu pour rien

20

Vous avez raison. L'Allemagne de 1939 et les talibans en Afghanistan sont deux choses bien différent. Ce que ne semblez pas voir ou vouloir comprendre, c'est que dans les deux cas, l'idéologie qu'ils prétendent défendre est dangeureuse, innaceptable, anti-démocratique et anti droits humain. La nature des conflicts entre nations ou civilisations a changée au cours des 50 dernières années. Vous n'avez plus besoin d'armée de plusieurs millions de soldats pour être une sérieuse menace pour l'humanité. Un minuscule groupe de gens mal intentionnés peu faire plus de domage avec certains produits biologogique et chimique que n'importe quelle armée au monde. C'est encore pire si ce groupe a réussi a mettre la main sur la technologie nucléaire. C'est ça la menace à laquelle nous faison face aujourd'hui. Pas à une invasion des barbus taliban dans les rues de Montréal. L'époque de la guerre traditionelle ou le soldat A faisait face au soldat B sur un champ de bataille est bien fini mais le problème avec certaines personnes c'est qu'ils de croire que c'est encore comme cela que les conflits modernes se déroulent. La seule recommendation que je puisse faire a ces gens, c'est de s'éduquer afin de comprendre que 2010, ce n'est pas 1939.

21

It shouldn’t really matter what these few people say. We voted, our nation, a democratic nation has collectively stated that we don’t want to waste any more money and/or lives over in the Hindu Kush fighting phantom barbarians, so that America can continue exporting heroin all over the world in record quantities... all the while the Afghan government enacts legislation that makes it legal to rape a woman! Your opinion has been noted, but your voice pales in comparison to our collective national stance on the issue... Sorry for your loss.

22

Moi j'appuie les soldats mais je suis contre l'occupation canadienne de l'Afghanistan. Les pertes que ces familles ont subis sont inqualifiables mais chaque canadien paient pour cette guerre et l'opinion de chacun a autant d'importance. La citation "Je ne veux pas qu'ils soient morts en vain" est bien touchante mais comment peut-on juger du moment où ils ne seront pas morts en vain ? Ne répétons pas l'erreur des USA avec le Vietnam. L'extrémiste islamiste se retrouve dans de nombreux pays et nombreux sont les pays où ils font la loi. Cet argument est à mon avis très faible pour justifier l'occupation canadien de l'Afghanistan. Les différents peuples se doivent de prendre leur pays en main comme nous le devons aussi car bien que nous soyons l'un des pays riches il n'en reste pas moins que le gouvernement fait clairement ce qu'il veut et nous demande de choisir au 4 ans à qui ira l'occasion.

23

il me semble que la nature des conflits que vous décrivez doit être résolu à l'aide d'agence de renseignement comme la CIA que par l'invasion d'un pays. Le petit groupe mal intentionné peut lors de l'invasion d'un pays bouger et changer de pays comme c'est le cas avec l'Afghanistan et le Pakistan. Je crois effectivement qu'on doit surveiller les groupes extrémistes mais par le renseignement et les opérations secrètes et non au grand jour.

24

Premièrement, vous aussi vous employez injustement le mot occupation alors que le contexte est tout autre. Quand vous invitez chez-vous des amis ou des membres de votre famille est-ce que vous dite qu'ils occupent votre résidence? C'est la même situation en Afghanistan ou le gouvernement élu a invité la communauté internationalle à venir les aider à défaire les groupe terroristes et extrémistes qui n'acceptent pas que l'Afghanistan puisse un jour vivre dans un contexte démocratique. De plus le Canada n'a pas de tradition d'occupation. Je suis convaincu que s'il n'y aurait pas eu de mandat des Nations Unies approvant le déploiement militaire de l'OTAN, le Canada ne serait pas en Afghanistan tout comme il n'était pas Iraq lorsque les US ont décidé unilatérallement d'intervenir dans ce pays.

Vous dites que l'extrémiste islamiste se retrouve dans de nombreux pays et nombreux sont les pays où ils font la loi. Je n'ai rien contre les pays qui ont décidé d'appiquer les loi Islamiques dans leur pays. C'est leur choix bien que, ayant fait mes études de Maitrise en droit international et droits humains, ca me chatouille un peu de voir que certains droits individuels de base ne soient pas accordés à tout être humain. Ce qui me dérange le plus c'est quand ces extrémistes veulent exporter et imposer leur idéologie au reste de la planète. C'est ce qu'Al Queda tente de faire, du moins c'est le discour qu'il tient publiquement.

25

Pour faire ce que vous proposez, il faut la coopération des gouvernements en place. Le problème c'est que, dans le cas de Al Queda, le gouvernement Taliban de l'époque les supportait et leur offrait un endroit sécuritaire ou il pouvait développer leurs plans. Même si la CIA aurait découvert le complot des attentats du 11 Sept, croyez-vous que le régime Taliban de l'époque aurait procédé à l'arrestation des terroriste d'Al Queda?

L'autre problème c'est que les agences de renseignement ont leur limites et il est pratiquement impossible de savoir tout ce qui se passe dans les autres pays. Il est certainment bien de prévenir mais, malheureusement, il faut parfois réagir.

26

Cela fait des années qu'on nous entretient de toutes les horreurs que les terroristes pourraient mettre dans notre eau ou je ne sais trop où. En fait, n'importe quel cinglé peut planifier de faire des singeries. Nous avons des services secrets qui gagnent leur vie à détecter ce genre de choses. Nous n'avons pas besoin d'être en Afghanistan pour y parvenir.

Toutes ces histoires avec les barbus à gougounes ne servent qu'à attiser la peur et la paranoïa. Sortons d'Afghanistan et laissons les Afghans faire leur histoire comme nous avons fait la nôtre. Cela ne pourra qu'améliorer notre fameuse sécurité. Comment peut-on être assez inconscient pour penser avoir un quelconque exemple à donner et comment peut-on être assez inconscient pour croire ne fut-ce que tente secondes qu'un peuple, qui par certains aspects en est encore au Moyen-Âge, va adhérer comme par enchantement à nos "valeurs" et devenir, en moins de temps qu'il n'en faut pour le dire, une démocratie à l'occidentale. C'est tellement grotesque, qu'on peut s'interroger sur l'état mental de ceux qui croient en ces conneries.

27

L'idéologie des talibans est bien plus dangereuse pour eux-mêmes que pour qui que ce soit d'autre. Que leur idéologie soit inacceptable pour nous je veux bien vous suivre, mais elle ne l'est peut-être pas pour les Afghans. Les talibans vont faire leur temps et un jour, ils seront mis à la porte par la population. Sortons de ce bourbier et cela arrivera encore plus rapidement, car tant et aussi longtemps que nous y restons, nous leur donnons des munitions.

Je peux vous certifier que les services secrets des pays occidentaux savent ce qui se trame partout sur la planète. Les services secrets américains n'ont pas prévenu le 11 septembre parce qu'ils étaient plus occupés à se faire la guerre entre eux et à faire de la rétention d'informations. Ils avaient tous les renseignements nécessaires pour que ce massacre soit évité, ils savaient aussi pour le type du pétard mouillé et là encore ils n'ont pas fait convenablement leur travail.

S'il faut que les américains fassent le ménage dans leur sécurité, qu'ils le fassent. Nous n'avons pas à "réagir", personne ne nous déclare la guerre et ce n'est pas le placotage de quelques barbus à gougoune ou les petits films de Ben Laden qui peuvent justifier que nous intervenions où que ce soit. Nous sommes tellement gâtés, tellement décadents que nous ressemblons de plus en plus à une gagne de moumounes qu'un barbu quelconque n'a qu'à faire bouh! pour nous voir arriver avec nos armes et nos grosses bottes.

28

It shouldn’t really matter what these few people say. We voted, our nation, a democratic nation has collectively stated that we don’t want to waste any more money and/or lives over in the Hindu Kush fighting phantom barbarians, so that America can continue exporting heroin all over the world in record quantities... all the while the Afghan government enacts legislation that makes it legal to rape a woman! Your opinion has been noted, but your voice pales in comparison to our collective national stance on the issue... Sorry for your loss.

29

Too bad the left-wing defeatists think their opinions on our mission matter more than those of these families or worse still, our military.

If you have no familiy of friends serving overseas, your opinion on the mission amounts to little when compared to those who've lost a loved one over there. You have *nothing* invested in the matter. So please keep your comments respectful on this story.

My condolences and heart-felt appreciation to the families of those who've lost a son, father, brother, daughter, mother or sister in Afghanistan.

Thank you for your sacrifice in the name of our country and way of life.

30

Do you have your tinfoil hat on securely Captain Canada?

"but your voice pales in comparison to our collective national stance on the issue"

Last I heard opinion on the mission was spilt 50/50....do have different numbers?

31

Here comes the Taliban lover Liberal and NDP socialists claiming the Canadian Forces is glorifying Canadian imperialism in Afghanistan.

32

With all due respect to the families.

I can understand that you don't want your child's death to seem like it was in vain because Canada needs to pull out, but your regret is far better than for another set of parents to lose another child by remaining there to fight an unwinnable war.

33

remember when McLaren died... First casualty on my tour, first (and fortunately, thus far, the only) dude I actually knew. It's still a bit haunting whenever a familiar name comes up.

I'm really glad we're able to do this for the families, and I hope the closure helps them at least a little bit.

Rest in peace brothers, and thank you for everything you've done and given.

34

Canadian Right...

It is your attitude that sent our children there to die. These soldiers have not sacrificed for our country nor our way of life and you should be ashamed of your comments and the pain that they cause.

Bring our children home now.

35

It sure sounds like these few are so blind suffering from their losses that now they want more blood to justify their grief. More dead bodies will not bring your lost family members back do you more families to suffer and then you will feel it was worth it do you think Canadians will forget that you lost family members because the Government chooses not to kill more of its soldiers.They died serving to interests of the Polititions at the time whether they were right or wrong only history or a final judgement will say. I have to agree with the first comment the herion fields were all but gone until Mr.Bush landed his troops their to start the flow of money for their pockets.

36

I have stated time and time again in previous posts that we cannot abandon what we have started. At the least we should revert to a training or supervisory role in cooperation with the Government of Afghanistan.

I do not make this statement lightly or without due thought, knowledge or consideration as I have spent 35 years of my life proudly serving my Country as a Canadian Forces Member.

37

I don't believe anybody in Canada questions the honour and integrety of our soldiers. They are the best in the world. This site I guess is not the right place to debate.

Rest in Peace to all our soldiers who have paid the ultimate sacrifice past and present.

38

If we give body armour to visiting Canadians, why don't we give it to the local civilians who live there?

The Afghan lives are just as valuable as Foreigners and they are getting killed by the 1000's as collateral damage.

39

«It is your attitude that sent our children there to die. These soldiers have not sacrificed for our country nor our way of life and you should be ashamed of your comments and the pain that they cause.

Bring our children home now »

Hey Joe, if we took a survey of Canadian military families, who's comments, yours or mine, do you think would be casining more pain?

Think really hard before you answer.

40

Sorry, the first thumbs down on your post was from me, I meant to thumbs down JoePublic's post below yours but my daughter was distracting me at teh time and I hit the wrong one (ooops!).

Thumbs up to your post!

41

Misery loves company.

42

«If we give body armour to visiting Canadians, why don't we give it to the local civilians who live there?

The Afghan lives are just as valuable as Foreigners and they are getting killed by the 1000's as collateral damage »

Right, because outfitting 1000's of Afghan civilians with body armour is just as financially feasible as a couple dozen Canadian civilians....

Not to mention how many of those armoured vests would end up in the hands of the Taliban later on...

43

You wish to see our Canadian identity, well I think you can see it in this story. The families of these soldiers, who gave their lives so very far away, want their sacrifice to be remembered. Is it a monument they want? Or maybe revenge for their loss? It would be understandable, after all. But no ! What they wish for is that Afghanistan become a better place to live, for the Afghan people to be safe and able to live with a little more prosperity and freedom. Whether you are for or against this war, I think this story defines us as a people, and I am moved by it.

44

Sacrificing the blood of the young to maintain the status quo that keeps some elite in power is an historical norm for the human race. But the fact that it is the norm does not mean that it is right or that we cannot change the norm. The dead may well have embodied the thought, "Greater love has no man than he lay down his life for his friend!" but the society that may have put those heroes in harms way frequently have no rite to wrap themselves in that flag. The Abrahamic ethos that forms much of Canadas norms, holds that our prime concern is peace and justice. Perhaps if we are not actually bringing those we ought not continue to ask this high price of those ready to give us so much.

45

I have no sympathy for Canadians dying in these illegal wars, we should be there. Thousands of innocent people slaughtered & they still can't find the boogie man or any weapons of mass destruction. No tears from this cowboy.

46

I know this oppurtunity ment alot to these families.

This isn't the first time families have gone over to see a glimpse of what there loved ones saw.

May all there loved ones rest in peace.

47

My thoughts and prayers are with these families, and all the troops and their families this long weekend.

Why should the troops stay past the set deadline? We have an opposition that does not care about the lives of those serving there, by endangering them by "broadcasting" to the world that our troops have given detainees over to the Afghan forces to be tortured, without any tangible evidence, but mere allegations, along with a few incidents of abuse ( detainee was slapped around with his sandle by the Afghan forces). Why would someone surrender when they fear torture, why not fight to the death?

They would not let it be investigated quietly, until at least there was proven, tangible evidence, nor would they sign any form of non-disclosure so they could view the documents in a less censored form. In my opnion, they simply wanted to use the issue for political gain, not caring about the men and women they were mailgning ot putting in harms way.

We still have over a year there, and there will major headway made with the extra boots being put on the ground. If we stay to train the Afghans we will still have involvement in the prisoner transfers, since part of the training involves the trainers to go with the trainees on missions as "mentors". Are we going to spend miilions of dollars on our own prison and send over trained correctional officers to run it? Or will we still have a detainee "quagmire", putting our troops into question?

Sorry...but when politicians turn on the troops, it is time to bring them home so they don't end up in the courts, for doing their jobs and following orders.

48

I had to come to the place where my son was last alive. And I needed to smell it. I needed to see. I needed to taste it. And I needed to hear it," said Braun.

My heart goes out to the mothers of fallen soldiers, as a mother I do not every want to feel an overwhelming need to go to a place where my child was last alive, I do not want to ever have that experience...and for these parents of fallen soldiers to want Canada to stay ...I have to ask, Why? Is it that you want others to feel the same pain that you do?

Bring our men and women home.....but most of all bring Our Children Home!

From a Mom!

49

People need to learn to censor theirselves for the following reasons.

1. Respect for the soldiers family.

2 . This artical is no place to voice ficticious statistics, and disrespectful notions suggesting our work in Afganistan has been 100% in vain.

Please don't comment on our actions in Afganistan unless you've seen it with your own eyes...

50

«It is your attitude that sent our children there to die. These soldiers have not sacrificed for our country nor our way of life and you should be ashamed of your comments and the pain that they cause.

Bring our children home now. »

it sure as hell isn't YOUR children who died there, it's THEIRS. And they still say we should stay. Somehow your opinion doesn't carry the weight theirs does. Don't insult them by insinuating they are either children, or your children. They are neither.

51

Why Is a soldiers life in Afghanistan so valuable and sacred but a Canadian life in Canada has little value?

Every year hundreds are seeking death by avalanche skiing/snowmobiling, fishing and snowmobiling on thin ice, refusing to wear seat belts, etc, etc, and etc!

These people choose to do that just as our soldiers choose to go to Afghanistan.

Why are you left wingers so hypocritical?

52

Why is it if your family member dies you want to keep the offensive going, why not just put your weapons down and come home. What will 2 more years do that the past 8 hasn't. This mission is a joke, Yes i feel for the families of these soldiers, but you can't distort reality for your own selfish reasons. Canada has contributed more than it should it, has done it's job and WE THE MAJORITY(taxpayers) have spoken and enough is enough. It was the Americans who said they will GO IT ALONE if need be. I just get the sneaky suspicion that we are being asked to stay for a future war with Iran. We sent a wrong message to the world by going there to begin with.

53

Who organized this trip to a war zone? Who paid for it?

54

«If you have no familiy of friends serving overseas, your opinion on the mission amounts to little when compared to those who've lost a loved one over there. You have *nothing* invested in the matter.

Wow. So, if you're not a member of the "warrior class", or at least directly associated with it, your opinion on Canadian overseas adventures is meaningless? »

I think not.

I'm a member of the "warrior class" and as far as I'm concerned everyone has the right to state their opinion on the expenditure of this nation's blood and treasure.

Whether one views the mission in Afghanistan as right, wrong, righteous or misguided, everyone is entitled to voice their opinion on the matter and they don't have to have run a relative over an IED to state it.

I'll go even further. I understand Mr. Kennedy's position and sympathize greatly with his loss, however, the casualty count is not and never has been a reason for continued force of arms. I'm sure there are more concrete reasons for a continuing Canadian military presence in Afghanistan, just as I'm sure there are people who can provide balanced arguments for not doing so.

55

you sound as though you haven't read the more gory details about Abraham.

I suggest you read your Bible more thoroughly!

Is this get-together intended as a last ditch strategy to enlist Mr. Kennedy's - an expert on international affairs, I presume - help in "winning the hearts and minds " of average Canadians, so that Harper may dare rationalize maintaining our fighting force in Afghanistan.....an unjust war, where thousands of Afghan lives were also lost under the banner of human pride and greed!

56

I hate to be blunt. I appreciate the service that these people made. I have nothing but sympathy for the families who also have made a great sacrifice.

However, the Canadian government lied to you and abused the trust of the soldiers. The mission is a sham and always was. The soldiers did die in vein. There is no realistic objective for this mission. It was a mission with no other objective than to gain clout and respect within NATO. There was never an expectation that peace or stability could be brought to Afghanistan. The Afghanis must sort it out for themselves and they never will unless they turn to secularism which we can not force them to do.

It's much easier to fool someone than convince them that they've been fooled. That's why we can't convert Afghani's to atheists and we can't convince the families of our fallen soldiers that they have been the victims of one of history's most callous scams.

Bring the rest of the troops home now and put in safeguards so that politicians can never abuse them in this way again.

57

laughing1: " as a mother I do not .. want to feel an overwhelming need to go to a place where my child was last alive,......and for these parents of fallen soldiers to want Canada to stay ...I have to ask, Why? Is it that you want others to feel the same pain that you do?"
Bring our men and women home.....but most of all bring Our Children Home!

If you have to ask "why" then you may be a mother, but you are not a mother of a soldier. So your pleas to "bring OUR" children home" do not mean diddly squat to those of us who can say "OUR " children are over there and OUR children WANT to stay.

58

All I can say is "Thank You"

from a proud Canadian Veteran

59

«It shouldn’t really matter what these few people say »

That is an unacceptably dismissive comments to family who have lost loved ones in the service of Canada.

You should remember it is only ever "the few" who have to give everything so that the rest of us can live the life we lead in Canada.

RIP brave soldiers. Except for a "few", all Canadians honour your sacrifice and thank you and your families for it..

60

I simply cannot believe the simplistic and ill-informed comments. For example:

“I have no sympathy for Canadians dying in these illegal wars, we should be there…” or,

“Sacrificing the blood of the young to maintain the status quo that keeps some elite in power is an historical norm…” and,

“If we give body armour to visiting Canadians, why don't we give it to the local civilians who live there?” And this little gem,

“It sure sounds like these few are so blind suffering from their [visiting soldier’s families]losses that now they want more blood to justify their grief…”

I’ll just keep reading as I’m certain both the half-wits and their silly rhetoric can only get more entertaining.

61

why can't those other NATO nations get into combat??? all safe n tucked away in the not-so-dangerous zone. like the italians and germany, etc etc...are they afraid of losing soldiers????? well if thats the case, why are they even at war??

62

This is just more CBC bias propaganda against the action over there.

The media tells us only negative stories, they report mainly canadian deaths, for days, and afghan government problems, civilian accidental deaths, stories about UN troops making mistakes, and then wonders why a large % of canadian people are against the fighting. It is because we are being mislead or not lead. I am against war and killing but I would like my publis broadcaster to tell me the truth, and not just one side so I can decide where I want the government to spend Billions of tax dollars and Canadian resources and lives.
Most of the reports are from other country's news agencies does CBC have people in Afghanistan? Are they hiding in the camp or some neighboring country?

I really hope these famlies get a lot out of this trip, because for the rest of us( beside PHOTO-OPs) this is a huge waste of time and resources.

63

«Here comes the Taliban lover Liberal and NDP socialists claiming the Canadian Forces is glorifying Canadian imperialism in Afghanistan. »

It is a shame that, in our country, so many people can only see 'right' or 'left'.

I generally accept that I tend to support Liberal ideas more than Conservative ideas, but when an issue of such importance presents itself, such an over-simplification of an issue is to me quite offensive and unhelpful

There have been moments where I have supported a Conservative decision because I think it wasa a good one, and other instances where they appear self-serving and silly. But I decided. Not party policy.

I like the freedon to decide for myself, whatever the issue, and not feel compelled to think of every question along party lines.

For crying out loud, taxmeplz, look at what blind partisanship has got us so far ! A government that can't fundtion.

And you think that's a good idea ?

64

«Wow. So, if you're not a member of the "warrior class", or at least directly associated with it, your opinion on Canadian overseas adventures is meaningless?
I think not.

I'm a member of the "warrior class" and as far as I'm concerned everyone has the right to state their opinion on the expenditure of this nation's blood and treasure.»

I agree as well DaveRCN.

I am Canadian born and raised and i served with the US Army and retired in 2005.
And i also agree that everyone can have a view on the war.

But when they are saying that Canada should pack up and pull out because it is not our fight that's where i draw the line.

I was there in Iraq in 1990 and saw alot of opposition to the fighting then in the US and Canada.

I saw the 9/11 attacks just like everyone else and was deployed in the first wave in 2003 did my duty and retired after my last mission in 2005 after 20 years service.
This whole shitty mess is just that a big shitty mess and alot of good men and woman are dying for a piece of desert real estate that's worth nothing but do it anyway.
And are dying for the freedom of alot of people over there and here at home and for what to be looked down on by there own people that think it is wrong to be there.
I feel for the parents and families of the fallen and the families of the men and woman lost in all wars.

But Mr Kennedy was right to pull out now and to have to do it again in a few years after another attack like 9/11 is wrong.

And will only come back to haunt us in the near future.

It might take another 3-4 years to end this thing and if my son's all have to fight then so be it if i have to i will be there by there side's with them fighting.

65

Wow people cool down here!!! It doesnt matter whether you agree or disagree with the war for this article! What we should really be discussing here is thanking our soldiers for making the ultimate sacrifice by risking their lives in combat. RIP all of our lost soldiers and God be with those still over sea

66

Captain Canada - regarding your comment at 3:54 pm

First people like you claim it was all about the USA's thirst for oil. Now you are claiming it's all about the USA's thirst for heroin.What is it?

Could it be simply about helping oppressed people achieve freedom?

67

It never fails to make me wonder how anyone could say that parents of a fallen soldier want more to feel the pain, or we want the drugs to continue flowing out of Afghanistan. I have lost one son to that war, one has come home safely and one is still over there. I believe in freedom of speach everyone being able to voice their opinion but don't say we want more of our sons/daughters or their friends to die. What parents of soldiers have is a reality check on terrorism. When my sons stop fighting over there, then you had better worry because they will be here and active in North America.

You are more than welcome to you political views but don't you try and tell me what my sons have fought for and are still fighting for.

Just take a look at the face of your daughter, niece, grandaughter, neighbours little girl and tell her she can't go to school, have a career and will be treated like a second or third class person the rest of her life. My son had many many pictures of Afghan children, he wanted them to have a better life - to me that is why we are there and should stay there. No child should grow up a child soldier and the Canadian soldiers are making a difference in Afghanistan, so lets finish it

68

These brave soldiers lost their lives in horrific barbaric conditions, while trying to bring a better life forward to Afghans civilians. If we could make a difference to those peoples then yes I would say stay and continue the mission. However that's not the case, this mission will not change things there unless we stay indefinably. When we see things like the rape law snuk in from behind, you have to realize that they will not easily let go of their ideology which to westerners is 7th century barbarism. Let's not sacrifice any more troops, bring them all home, all of them. We Canadians are so proud of your efforts. And those that are no longer with us RIP.

69

KIlled in combat???? I thought they were all just killed by roadside bombs and only that choice of weapon there by the cowards of the taliban and such. Bit of a difference dont you think. May they rest in peace and condolences to the families......

70

«Why Is a soldiers life in Afghanistan so valuable and sacred but a Canadian life in Canada has little value?

Every year hundreds are seeking death by avalanche skiing/snowmobiling, fishing and snowmobiling on thin ice, refusing to wear seat belts, etc, etc, and etc!
These people choose to do that just as our soldiers choose to go to Afghanistan.
Why are you left wingers so hypocritical? »

What on Earth is your point ?...or do you have one ? Your comparison between a 'sledder' and a 'soldier' is completely empty.

Was this just another chance to slam the left ?

71

Who paid for this? The Conservative party trying to justify not getting out of the war?

72

I can understand the pain, grief and loss those families felt when they went back to sinkhole their loved ones took their last breath. The Afghanistan war is not winable so why should more families have to go through the same pain, grief and loss as those families have gone through?

Canada has done more that its fair share in Afghanistan in terms of money, resources/support and most importantly the loss of our young Canadian lives.
It's time to cut our losses and bring our troops home. Afghanistan needs to get rid of it corrupt government and learn to stand on its own feet before we will see any chances in that country.

73

god bless these families for their courage under fire!

74

I understand that families do not want the sacrifice of their loved ones to have been in vain.

I also understand that this was the place where Al Quaida was able to build it's strength and launch attacks on the West.

However how does one win a war against the Taliban when the Taliban are Afghans. How does one win a war in a place where the people want to be rid of all foreign soldiers and have fought off every single invader including the Russians and others.

As much as it would be great to have peace in Afghanisthan I think you cannot do this if the people do not support and as long as the warlords and others command little armies.

Eventually all the western armies will be out of Afghanisthan and they'll revert to their old ways and there is little we can do about it I'm afraid the sooner we acknowledge this the better.

75

«it's because their governments have actually passed laws stating that they're not allowed to. plus if you looked into the german consitution, you would be aware that they are not allowed to be in direct engagements of combat.

one of my most proudest moments over in afghanistan, was in 2008 for remembrance day. one of my good friends, mark graham, was killed over there. his parents were brought over for remembrance day, and a certain higher up made it possible for me to see them, as i had not seen them since marks wake.»

that i know of, this has happend two or three other times i believe. but do not directly quote me on that.

76

This sob story is part of the expected snow job being staged to create the illusion that Canadians want to extend the Afghan mission. So far this week I have heard one radio talk show and two TV debates on the virtues of staying the course in Afghanistan and now this story from families of the fallen appears like magic. Canadians are not going to be duped by fairy tales of turning Afghanistan around or painting Canada's involvement as anything other than a fiasco. I suspect that most informed Canadians will resent this transparent attempt to manipulate public opinion and give Harper cover to extend the mission.

77

We must not let the fallacy of sunken costs influence our decisions, because doing so would not be rationally assessing a decision exclusively on its own merits. Sunken costs, are unrecoverable past expenditures. These should not be taken into account when determining whether to continue a project or abandon it, because they cannot be recovered either way.

Simply adding to the death toll will not change the merit of our Afghanistan deployment. Better to research the root cause of this mess and do our part to ensure it never happens again.

I am a service family member and we are lucky to have our loved one back in one piece. After his unit was ambushed, he helped carry a coffin instead of being in one. My heart goes out to all service families.

78

So your telling us the reason we live so good in Canada is because were in Afghanistan? are you serious? Listen there are times in history where what you are saying is correct, but this current time is nothing more than a quagmire. Just because your in the military doesn't mean what you are directed to do is the RIGHT way. When this is all said and done you will see a general agreement that we put our own men and woman in harms way for nothing. A bunch of evil men made billions of dollars will be the real outcome. And these same men don't give a S%^T about any of the soldiers dead or alive.

79

first ,god bless all the canadian troops ,but this story seems biased, where are the comments from the families that agree with the armed forces withdrawl,this sounds too much like prowar propaganda.you would think losing a family member would make you want to bring the rest of our boys and girls home.if you actually think we will fare better in afganistan than every other army from history,you are fooling yourself.

80

the mission is a scam, created by the highest ranks of capitalism, selling bullets and weapons, employing civilian companies at ridiculously high contracts. the egotistical ranks of the canadian military are plainly blinded by the difference of fighting for the rights of our country and fighting for the reason to tell a war story. warrior class my ass. quit waisting tax dollarrs on this crap.

81

We read that some family members of Canadian soldiers, so tragically killed in Afghanistan, declare in public that Ottawa should not pull out of that country next year. Given that this happens to be the view not only of the United States but also of prominent members of the Conservative Party, it mighty be appropriate to enquire who was paying for the visit of these unfortunate folks to Afghanistan.

82

If only our government had worked to get good "Actionable Intelligence" from our foreign Intelligence Agency, the CSE, which could have, and should have, provided the information to prevent the explosives and weapons from ever entering Afghanistan in the first place, that killed these brave young men and women. Shame on the Conservatives for ignoring my reports to them that should have prevented, at the very least these young lives, if not 9-11 that caused it, and all the other falsified Intelligence by that agency... For Shame!

83

I have the greatest sympathy for those parents or spouses who have lost someone finghting for Canada in Afganistan. I cannot imagine how it hurts you.

That is not a good reason for us to stay there, and it was not a good reason to go in the first place. Staying there will not take away your pain or justify the death of your loved one.

This war is unwinable and like the Russians who were there for almost 20 years, the same fate befalls any other foreign country who goes. It will become another Viet Nam. The west will lose the war because the people who live there will fight to the death for their own country and way of life. Many lives will be needlessly lost and billions will be spent to no avail.

84

Captain Canada wrote:

«It shouldn’t really matter what these few people say. We voted, our nation, a democratic nation has collectively stated that we don’t want to waste any more money and/or lives over in the Hindu Kush fighting phantom barbarians, so that America can continue exporting heroin all over the world in record quantities... all the while the Afghan government enacts legislation that makes it legal to rape a woman! Your opinion has been noted, but your voice pales in comparison to our collective national stance on the issue... Sorry for your loss.»

The Americans are exporting heroin in record quantity? Seriously?

I don't give much credibility to anybody who write or supports this kind of anti American nonsense.

The lies you're spreading warms the hearts of the Taliban.

Captain Canada!!! LOL, what was your previous rank, Lieutenant Gullible?

85

«who paid for this? The Conservative party trying to justify not getting out of the war?»

If you're a tax payer, you are paying for this buddy. LOL

The Canadian left, using the death of every soldiers as an excuse to demand an immediate withdrawal but in reality too heartless to even want to help the families involved. What a disgrace.

86

My family and I would like to express our heartfelt condolences and gratitude for the sacrifice these soldiers and their families have made. For those asking "who paid for this", if it turns out to be our tax dollars, this is the least this nation can do for these mothers and fathers and share to those who feel the need to make an issue of it. As someone who is about to leave his wife and two young children to go there, I cannot stress enough to all Canadians how important this mission still is. We are making progress, we are making a difference, and we are making the lives of countless Afghans better. I am not naive by any stretch of the imagination. I have educated myself on Afghanistan’s history, the west’s involvement there, the rise and history of the Taliban. I know of Hamid Karzia’s back ground and that of his brother. Even with all of this, I submit this mission is worth it and we will succeed. For a nation that has known nothing but conflict for 30 years, a nation whose infrastructure has been demolished, the children of Afghanistan deserve nothing less. That is what I will be thinking when I hug my son and daughter for the last time before I get onto the plane.

87

The fact the CBC lets posts such as Googles58 and other mean spirited comments fly under the radar and do NOT print rebuttals just goes to show what a shill they are to the socialists. Its alright to disagree with the mission and why we are there. There is no excuse for hammering the dead and their families, it reeks of poor taste and disrespect. I'm sure your parents are proud.

88

of course, these poor family members don't want to believe that their loved ones died in vain.

Alas, that is the sunken costs fallacy- the very thing that kept europeans killing each other by the millions in the Great War.

The most foolish thing in the world is to stick to a bad strategy on account of the fact that you have already expended resources on it.

All it will accomplish is adding more families to the list of those mourning their losses.

89

As a member of NATO we were obligated to contribute to the United States' defense after the World Trade Centre was attacked. Since these attacks were master-minded by Osama bin Ladin from Afghanistan, our government chose to contribute forces to the cause. Declaring war, or contributing resources to a NATO Mission is a cabinet decision and is not subject to a parliamentry vote. This was a decision made by Liberal Prime Minister, Paul Martin. There have been two federal election since then, we have not elected a NDP majority to pull the troops out. Even the Bloc Quebecois has not suggested we withdraw. If we unilaterally pull our troops out totally in 2011, we are going to lose credibility in the eyes of the world. Then all our peace keeping missions will count for nought.

90

«KIlled in combat???? I thought they were all just killed by roadside bombs and only that choice of weapon there by the cowards of the taliban and such»

I think you should read up on the history of afghanistan. Afghans are anything but cowards.

Roadside bombs are simply one of the only strategies that works reliably. You can't blame them for using it.

Take away NATO airpower, and the ground war would be won by the afghans. They have numbers on their side. Without all those strategic bombers and AC-130 gunships, NATO would be sent packing. (Just like the Soviets) Doesn't take a lot of courage to drop a bomb on an afghan wedding party from thousands of feet in the air.

91

This is pathetic sending families to see where their son or daughter was killed in war, did they do this in all small wars or is this just a photo opp the USA set up to make us feel worse than we already do. This is not a regular practice I hope,moms and dads should not be put in danger this way, shame on the government for using our parents to keep us there, if it's time to stop the fight why keep it going !!

92

Why are we there? What are we trying to accomplish?

I never could understand how the Taliban became Canada's enemy. The people of Afghanistan, including the Taliban, seem to be a very simple and poor people. It's hard to believe that these people are sitting in their mud huts planning the over throw of the Western world. They seem more interested in survival and tending to their goats than attacking the West.

If we really wanted to help these people we would not be waging war with them. We would be trying to work with them to help them improve their lives.

It's not worth the lives of our children, husbands and wives. It's time to bring the troops home.

93

«The fact the CBC lets posts such as Googles58 and other mean spirited comments fly under the radar and do NOT print rebuttals just goes to show what a shill they are to the socialists. Its alright to disagree with the mission and why we are there. There is no excuse for hammering the dead and their families, it reeks of poor taste and disrespect. I'm sure your parents are proud.»

How correct and to the point your statement is. I've also noticed too many basement apartment types pecking out nonsense simply to see their “profound” naive comments front and centre on a national forum. As a proud Canadian fortunate to have served in our land force reserves I’d sure appreciate the opportunity to jack these fools up. Thanks for the good work.

94

«Take away NATO airpower, and the ground war would be won by the afghans. They have numbers on their side. Without all those strategic bombers and AC-130 gunships, NATO would be sent packing. (Just like the Soviets) Doesn't take a lot of courage to drop a bomb on an afghan wedding party from thousands of feet in the air. »

Apparently you haven't heard from the troops on the ground then. They always win gunbattles which is why the Taliban won't engage in them.

P.S. bombs are about the same courage level as IEDs so I don't see your point. However I will grant you that the people killed recently at a wedding by a suicide bomber were not killed remotely. You didn't seem to notice that one though, you're pretty selective with your sympathy.

If your entire opinion is based on theory you might want to buttress it with a little reality. Otherwise those who know better can call you on it

95

I understand and respect these families and what they are doing and saying. It is however insane to stay beyond our committment. Their children and the children of others who gave their lives will forever be remembered and revered. This is not like Europe when the whole world could have been taken by force. This is about hunting the terrorist Bin Laden, destroying the training camps, strenghtening ties with Pakistan and the rebuilding of the country after years, actually hundreds of years, of war and misrule. We have done our best, more than any other country of 30 some million souls. We did make a difference and sooner or later you must face that fact that a nation as ruthless, well armed and focused as Russia couldn't win there. Russia held the borders, we hold nothing. Strengthen the government there to the best of our ability before we go but go as stated.

The fallen will never be forgotten, they will always be in our hearts and minds.

96

Why, except for abrasive posts, are youeven bothering to allow some posts and not others ? You only have 60 comments on this this thread for Haeven's sake !

How about being a little less power happy for a change ?

97

It is great to see the families of the soldiers go to Afghanistan. It is seeing and standing on the foreign soil and seeing the terrain that the soldiers lost their lives serving their country.

To every Canadian Soldier... you serve our country with honor. I support you 100 percent.

Keep the good work going.

98
jbwilson24 and all Afghan terrorist like you are cowards. They hide amongst children and women too scared to come out and face the enemy. You hide behind anonymity. You say take away the air power, you treasonous SOB shouldn't a good Canadian say give up the terrorism and there would be no war on terror. You are an IDIOT!

99

«god bless all the canadian troops ,but this story seems biased, where are the comments from the families that agree with the armed forces withdrawl,this sounds too much like prowar propaganda.you would think losing a family member would make you want to bring the rest of our boys and girls home.if you actually think we will fare better in afganistan than every other army from history,you are fooling yourself. »

Well this happens to be about those who DO want us to stay, if you think it is propaganda I'm sure they'd be willing to tell you so in person to alleviate your suspicions. I also see you THINK they should feel as you do, and are puzzled that they do not. Even though to you it is strictly an academic question. What does that say? It's THEIR "boys and girls" who have died. I think we can grant them some respect for their first-hand thoughts, don't you?

100

«However, the Canadian government lied to you and abused the trust of the soldiers. The mission is a sham and always was. The soldiers did die in vein. »

Wow Cory you make soldiers sound too stupid to have the knowledge you do, even though they have about a thousand times more experience and probably more brains, including knowing how to spell "vain." It's nice of you to tell them how naive and dumb they are. I refer you to Senior Service's recent post. He doesn't sound too stunned to know what he's doing to me. I am more than positive career soldiers can determine better than you can what a sham is and what isn't. But in future I'll refer them to you for guidance, O Oracle.

101

The war against Afghanistan is an ugly stain on Canada.
Shamelessly using the parents of dead soldiers is a stain on the military.

102

Despite relatives wanting meaning for their lost ones, the only thing that they died for is Stephen Harper's vanity, and for this I am truly sorry. We have taken out a corrupt brutal religion based government and replaced it with a corrupt brutal religion based government pretending to be secular.

103

Don't say "Bring our children home", when I doubt you or your children have been there. I have been there, my husband has been there, my brother has been there and many, many friends have been there. To date I have lost 5 people over there, and I will not say it was in vain. yes they have sacrificed for our way of life, whether you want to believe it!!!!!!!!

To quote a poem that sums up my opinion.

It is the soldier, not the reporter, Who has given us freedom of the press.
It is the soldier, not the poet, Who has given us freedom of speech.
It is the soldier, not the organizer, Who has given us the freedom to demonstrate.
It is the soldier, Who salutes the flag, Who serves beneath the flag,
And whose coffin is draped by the flag, Who allows the protestor to burn the flag.

104

“This is pathetic sending families to see where their son or daughter was killed in war, did they do this in all small wars or is this just a photo opp the USA set up to make us feel worse than we already do. This is not a regular practice I hope,moms and dads should not be put in danger this way, shame on the government for using our parents to keep us there, if it's time to stop the fight why keep it going !!”

Well my friend as you mature and learn a few life lessons you’ll come to understand that closure is often the best means for a bereaved family to heal. Do your credibility a favour and educate yourself on the purpose of our Vimy Ridge Memorial.

105

«why can't those other NATO nations get into combat??? all safe n tucked away in the not-so-dangerous zone. like the italians and germany, etc etc...are they afraid of losing soldiers????? well if thats the case, why are they even at war??»

All Coalition Military forces have lost soldiers in Afghanistan.
One killed is to many as far as i am concerned but reality is 1711 have died and we are all fighting in dangerous area's.

I would have loved to have found a not so dangerous zone as you put it when i was in Afghanistan as an observer for the US military in 2004.

And if you had joined up and fought instead of criticizing from your cozy little home in North America you would know that already wouldn't you?

106

Bad Karma; "Despite relatives wanting meaning for their lost ones, the only thing that they died for is Stephen Harper's vanity, and for this I am truly sorry.»

In the first place, It wasn't Harper who sent them to Afghanistan; it was the liberals. Thought you should know that before any more stupid comments come out of your head.

107

As a retired soldier I was all for Canada sending troops to Afghanistan after 9/11. I actually thought that we could make a difference and in many ways we have.

But on the other hand after seeing the contemptable corruption in the Afghanistan government, the infighting, the warlord problem and the taliban problem in Pakistan I've come to the conclusion that if this war is ever to be won, it will be won by the Afghans alone and not by western armies. If the Afghan people are serious about erracticating the Taliban scourge it will be up to them to find the determination to do it. Western armies will eventually leave and it will be up to the Afghans themselves in which direction they wish to take...

As for the fallen soldiers I say "Rest Easy & God Speed" and to their families I share in your grief.

"PRO PATRIA"

108

I hope the Harper government has enough principles NOT to use these families grief as a way to spin a longer stay in the hell hole!

109

No they didn't die for Stephen Harper's Vanity they died to give you the right to speak out against the Government if you don't agree.
And don't try to "USE" there death's to make people believe that Stephen Harper was to blame for this Conflict the last time i checked we were fighting to stop terrorist groups like Al-Qaeda and the Taliban.
And what would you do?

Replace it with a Canadian type Government?

I wonder how that would go over in an Islamic Country.

110

«The war against Afghanistan is an ugly stain on Canada.
Shamelessly using the parents of dead soldiers is a stain on the military »

Canada is not at war against Afghanistan.

We, and all of NATO, are at war WITH Afghanistan AGAINST the Taliban.

We are on the same side as Afghanistan. We are helping them secure their country against a barbaric enemy who wishes to impose its primitive interpretation of Islam on them.

Most estimates put the number of Taliban who are NOT Afghans at well over 50%.

I can't believe I had to explain that to you.

111

"I don't want him to die in vain," Kennedy said.

With all respect, I wonder if Mr. Kennedy would feel this way about the pull-out, if his son were [still] alive [and at risk... ].

112

«Apparently you haven't heard from the troops on the ground then. They always win gunbattles which is why the Taliban won't engage in them »

Good point Servitium.

I have several friends who've been to Afghanistan and most of them have seen cobat with the Taliban.

One friend in particular did not have much good to say about their combat abilities. He said they were brave, but that's about it. Easy to outflank and outmanouvre and thus, very easy to kill. He said ground engangements with the Taliban were so easily won by our guys it was almost pitiable.

But the tinfoil hats here seem to have this heroic vision of the Taliban beating our guys in ground engagements when they can't even hit a static target with their AKs at 50 yards.

113

Perhaps a pray written by Mark Twain

"O Lord our Father, our young patriots, idols of our hearts, go forth to battle -- be Thou near them! With them -- in spirit -- we also go forth from the sweet peace of our beloved fire sides to smite the foe. O Lord our God, help us to tear their soldiers to bloody shreds with our shells; help us to cover their smiling fields with the pale forms of their patriot dead; help us to drown the thunder of the guns with the shrieks of their wounded, writhing in pain; help us to lay waste their humble homes with a hurricane of fire; help us to wring the hearts of their unoffending widows with unavailing grief; help us to turn them out roofless with little children to wander unfriended the wastes of their desolated land in rags and hunger and thirst, sports of the sun flames of summer and the icy winds of winter, broken in spirit, worn with travail, imploring Thee for the refuge of the grave and denied it -- for our sakes who adore Thee, Lord, blast their hopes, blight their lives, protract their bitter pilgrimage, make heavy their steps, water their way with their tears, stain the white snow with the blood of their wounded feet! We ask it, in the spirit of love, of Him Who is the Source of Love, and Who is the ever-faithful refuge and friend of all that are sore beset and seek His aid with humble and contrite hearts. Amen.

114

I believe that it provides closure for the parents being there. As for the troops being there, I believe the mission is done and it's time to come home. 141 Soldiers paid the ultimate sacrifice and that should never be forgotten.

As for the visiting parents, we all share their grief. I have served in a Roto in kandahar and saluted a few buddies on their way home in a draped coffin. The mission in Afghanistan has taken a new face with the surge of US troops. It is no longer Bin ladden, but a venue for the US to keep an eye on Iran, and the 2 nuclear powered pakistan and India, as well as the tremendous oil supply that still has to be tapped into. I am still serving in Afghanistan since 2008 and still no end in sight. 9/11 happened, we committed for a certain period of time, paid with the lives of 141 soldiers, let the world know that we do hit back and we are a respectful nation. We have nothing to prove to anyone anymore.

115

Quit calling the fallen to parade.

They're neither for nor against further service in Afghanistan.

I find that sticking a mike in the face of the mother of a fallen trooper to be about as low as one can go.

116

And from a serving soldier - this is ridiculous. Keep the families at home, no need to drag them halfway around the world for this stuff.

And another thing, Easter rememberance service - are you kidding me - I thought Easter was for one of two things:

1 - eating chocolate (for those who are not believers)

2 - remembering the sacrifice of Christ (for those who are believers)

I can definitely say Easter has nothing to do with remembering fallen soldiers.

117

We support our troops.
Canadian Military men and women, we support you !

118

Whatever the cause I have a problem with someone being proud that someone has killed or was killed...my sympathies to all families of the world for the lost of loved ones.

119

I never understood the 'hero' mentality. Especially in the USA where anyone is a hero...it seem the conservatives here are bringing it into Canada and have also turned it around that you can not be supportive of the military personnel unless you support the wars they are in. Same with questioning anything about the military your branded as a traitor or terrorist supporter by many Harperites. It is the same mantra as the Republicans do in the states.

I do not dislike our soldiers and support them but since I do not like the Afghan mission I am called anti military and was even told once I should not say is do not like Afghan mission as it hurts the people in the military's feelings...

I wonder how many in the military actually support the whole Afghan 'war' but can't say it publicly?

Regarding those scholarships all young people going wanting to go to post secondary should get them. There are as well many one parent families in Canada and they too should get free post secondary education. Post secondary education should be free for anyone who wants to go regardless of age.

But the Harpercons turn any questioning about it into one being anti military and use fancy words like 'anti hero' 'don't support the troops' 'their parent died keeping Canada safe' all the guilt jingoism.

120


«In the first place, It wasn't Harper who sent them to Afghanistan; it was the liberals. Thought you should know that before any more stupid comments come out of your head.»

Are you sure the comments came out of the head? The body contains another orifice capable of making mindless noises.

121

" It wasn't Harper who sent them to Afghanistan; it was the liberals."

yeah, yeah, yeah.... the usual in the silliness. Yes, it was the Liberals who sent Canadian forces to Afghanistan - but not... did you get that?.... not in a combat mission.

Was Harper Co., right after first thin minority election, who lept to the media mikes and declared that Canada was about to start "fighting the war on terrorism" and there's where all this started.

122

This is terrible terrible dastardly spinography.

I thought it was despicable sending the warshocked amputee back overseas in uniform, but this takes the cake.

They let a guy who had lost his legs in afghanistan go back over still in uniform, and another guy who was shot by the american warthog plane go back over, each of which chose to go, but clearly under some questionable psychological capacity...

Now they trot out the families of the wardead?

What is this, Goebbels era German propoganda?

I am ashamed of our government for doing this, and in time, I think the families will come to feel the same way. This is yankee style 'my country, right or wrong' politics at its worst.

I do not stand behind this PR move at all. It is disgusting.

123

A Canadian rightwinger managed to mutter "If you have no familiy of friends serving overseas, your opinion on the mission amounts to little..."

Well this unashamed leftwinger actually served there - did you? I highly doubt it as there is a whole class of rightwing keyboard warriors in Canada who think they have the final say on anything and everything to do with our military.

Don't be cowed into not speaking your minds fellow Canadians! Don't let these quasi-fascists dictate the discourse of our national will. This former soldier and veteran says it's way beyond time we leave Afghanistan to its own devices. There are other places in this world in far more need of our assistance than that place!

124

«All Coalition Military forces have lost soldiers in Afghanistan.»

I suppose your right if you count traffic accidents, and suicides.

Your statement is blatantly false, just another feeble attempt by the right wing harper socialists to sing the praises of this war. Hallelujah and praise the war.

125

It's good that the families got some closure while they were able to. We should encourage more of that while we can. After the Candians leave and NATO withdraws, Canadians may not even be able to visit the place when the Taliban inevitably moves in and takes over again.

126

Reading this board there is no doubt of the respect Canadians have for our fallen and their families. But to ignore the reality of Afghanistan - see DaleMalone post - is folly

A friend did his tour there and was proud to fight for his country and would go back again but even so he told me, in a more somber moment, the difficulty in dealing with / teaching the Afgan police as they were stoned most of the time.

To be cynical, the best use of money would be to buy up as many warlords as possible a la Yankees and then we (the west) would have our 'peace'.

127

My sympathies to the families. But there is a good reason solider's families don't make our military policies: lack of emotional detachment from the complex issues at hand and objectivity. If we had honoured the sacrifices that Canadians had made in the Boer War, and two world wars, we would never have sent our troops to die in the service of another empire. Their duty is to defend Canada, not someone else's empire, and no one should be under any illusions about that.

128

I always love noticing that you lefties never come back with anything but Harper is a criminal which he is'nt and that you Conservatives just stink.

When will the lefties get some sense start respecting the fallen and admit that they got us there in the first place and that they are nothing but disrespect to the nation that was founded on Conservatives called CANADA!!

You lefties are unpredictab;e and all over the place. Thats wh you never win because your a disrespect to the country.

129

I sympathize with these folks but I also belive there is something else at play here and these people are being played like a fiddle.

I hope I am wrong but Harper built up our forces for a reaon,he has also proven that his word is not trustworthy.I honestle think something big is in the wind for our forces.Either that or this is simply a play on Canadian citizens and his contempt of Parliament.

This ,is acctually a very strange way for parents to look for some finality to their losses. I really ,will pray for peace of mind for all of you and I hope,that you are not being played like this for some idiotic political ploy.
God bless you all.

Freedom and democracy for the Afghan people while ,at home,we are having to fight our government to keep ours. What does that say??I'me at a loss for an answer as to why??

130

Why is it called 'Project Hero'? When it comes down to it they are just doing their job they are paid to do like Police, Firemen, clerk at 7-11 etc. Seriously what is so heroic about going on patrol, stepping/driving on a mine and dying? I feel bad they died and for their families but what is heroic about it? Rescuing and carrying an injured buddy through gun fire or a mine field is heroic.

It is not like world war one and two where they did not have all the hi tech equipment to do a lot of the work and dirty work for them. Watching documentaries those guys in the first two world wars had nerves of steel and balls without all the fancy vests, helmets, missiles, drones, satellite, guns etc like they do now.

I would also say (at the risk of causing a firestorm) the modern military and their leaders are not up to snuff like the Field Marshal's, Generals, Admirals of the first two world wars.

With all the hi tech gadgets from satellites, night vision, gps in missiles, drones, fighter jets, radar, bunker busting bombs and the rest of the most modern hi tech technology they can not defeat what is really no more than a medieval army (yes I know they have some hi tech gadgets left over from the Russian invasion but I am just trying to make a point).....unless of course they do not really want to win and keep the profiteers like the military industrial complex, private armies etc (who no doubt support politicians with donations), raking in the money....

131

PROPAGANDA.

These families trip, like everything else related to the conflict in Afghanistan is a big PR campaign orchestrated by the current government (could have been the Liberals as well). Does the government think we are stupid enough to believe that this whole trip was not set up?

132

What never ceases to amaze me is the inability of those who disagree with the war to ever accept the views of those who continue to believe that the war in Afghanistan remains a just, noble and necessary war. When family members of the fallen don't become, anti-war, anti-Harper and pro-pull out you shout that they are misguided, being used, warmongerers or just plain stupid.

You say those currently serving are blind and not bright enough to realize they are being used. You say those of us who have served are arm chair generals who are once again trying to relive our time in the service. If I mention that I've been to Afghanistan numerous times as a private citizen you call me a mercenary.

How wonderful it must feel to be so enlightened and bright looking down on all us fools who continue to believe that freedom is worth fighting for and that given sufficient time and support, Afghanistan can enjoy a level of freedom, democracy and equality not seen in that country since the 60's.

Freedom, democracy and equality are things you and I have always known and have often taken for granted. We love to write comments, many using usernames like Dukeboy or something other than your real name and we just accept that the CBC will print our words without repercussion yet in the vast majority of countries you don't get to make the comments and where you can the possibility of a knock on your door is very real. Our soldiers and civilians in Afghanistan continue to do amazing work and are giving Afghans a chance. I hope that we don't pull out in 2011 and do accept a reduced role training troops in Kabul which is much safer and would allow the Army to rest and re-equip while continuing an important task.

To those who oppose the war I say I support your right to be wrong

133

«why can't those other NATO nations get into combat??? all safe n tucked away in the not-so-dangerous zone. like the italians and germany, etc etc...are they afraid of losing soldiers????? well if thats the case, why are they even at war??»

All Coalition Military forces have lost soldiers in Afghanistan.
One killed is to many as far as i am concerned but reality is 1711 have died and we are all fighting in dangerous area's.

I would have loved to have found a not so dangerous zone as you put it when i was in Afghanistan as an observer for the US military in 2004.

And if you had joined up and fought instead of criticizing from your cozy little home in North America you would know that already wouldn't you?

Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2010/04/03/afghanistan-canadian-easter-visit.html#ixzz0k60e1lAp

WRONG

canada has 3000 soldiers;

141 dead

germany 4500

38

As a FAMILY member of someone deployed RIGHT now in Khandahar, i hear of the differences in location and the "safeness" for lack of a better word. Germany Italy France ect. Need to step it up. And fine if everywhere is the same buddy, us and Germany will switch places, we'll see which country whines and bitches more.

134

I can't believe that some of you are trying to use this story to beat up on Harper.
If this is what liberalism is about then count me out.

This is a chance to give our full support to our troops.

I would like to say thanks to all our fighting men and women.
As a war vet myself I know how important it is to know what you are doing is completely supported by people back home. Be safe brothers and sisters.

135

«Why are we there? What are we trying to accomplish?»

War is good for business. Over 30 BILLION dollars has been spent on this 'War' and the potential is there to spend even more. Somebody is getting rich by keeping us there.

136

Is there some sort of secret left wing organization that has a call out list to tell its members when to post thumbs down to anything to do with the Canadian military. Much of what has been posted here is truly disgusting.

'Pro Patria'

137

".....Fathers, mothers, brothers, sisters and uncles took part in a special ceremony...."

Seems there was quite a group but CBC hasn't told us how many, or who picked up the tab, which would be considerable.

Was the Canadian government involved?

If so, a statement should be made.

Until this is clarified, nothing but rancorous speculation will result, a far cry from the condolences due..

138

Weep for the Colonizing Canadians!

139

To all those that believe we should not be in Afghanistan, please remember that it is our government under the liberals and later the H of C under the Cons. that sent our soldiers to Afghanistan - therefore in extension it is you the citizens of Canada that sent our troops into harms way.

And - neither in 2002 when we sent troops to Kabul nor in 2006 when we sent our troops south to Kandahar did I see or hear of any demonstrations by you the citizens against the UN/NATO Mission in Afghanistan. As far as you Nay-Sayers go, you are all a bunch of hypocrites.

The government ows the troops that sacrificed so much, to those that gave their live and their families and to all of us citizens a franc and open discussion in the H of C regarding a possible extention of a few hundred soldiers in NON-Combat postions.

Canada and its Soldiers have the right to see Canada at the table when the mission ends - and not to become known as the country the left an unfinished job to others.

140

I forgot to mention that a majority (poll) of Canadians agree to keep a contingent in NON-Combat position in Afghanistan.

141

Pardon my spelling I am French Canadian serving under the Royal 22 Regiment in Valcartier. I have served twice In Afghanistan 2006-2009 and was on the front line. I can’t stress enough the facts is if you never did anything in your life for a cause or something else than for yourself you will never never understand what we do, or why we do it. Saying that, you would be the first to roll over and play dead when your liberties as a nation and as human being would be challenge or taken away from you. Without people like me, or firefighter, or cops and the list goes on you would have no life.

Je me souviens

R22R

142

Canada is in Afghanistan and has fulfilled their commitment to NATO we stayed longer than asked. We now are being asked to stay even longer for one primary reason..... IRAN. People warned the world years ago that a master plan was in the works and Iran is the main prize.Nobody believed this and passed it off as a conspiracy. Now tell me is this a conspiracy?. Afghanistan then Iraq and soon to be Iran. Pretty pathetic that hundreds of thousands have died in the mid east, kids ,woman ect compared to our 3000 or so soldiers that have perished. Is it really worth it? To be known as a entity that has killed more than we are trying to save, all in the name of DEMOCRACY. The world was more stable prior to these two wars. I do support some of the men and woman in our military this is for sure, but i would be a jerk if i was to support their mission, it is a fraud. To the best of my Knowledge not one taliban or Iraqi or Iranian has done any harm to me or my country. Wish i could say the same for them.

143

Some 8 1/2 years after the invason:

1.Osama? Nowhere to be found.
2.Al Qaeda? Hardly mentioned anymore.
3.Heroin trade destroyed by taliban? Restored.
4.Rape law by Karzai-fraud? In place.
5.Over 140 dead Canadians dead, $25 billion squandered.

Watch for US future criminal misadventures.

Wars without end, profit for all kinds for crooks, sorrow for innocent civilians and soldiers families, debt for the taxpayers.

What else is there to 'achieve'? Pull out.

144

Let me ask those of your who've lost someone you love this very simple question.

Do you wish to see others do the same?

If you answered yes to that question, then maybe you should ask yourself, why?

Good-Bye !!!

145

My sympathy and condolences to these people. I can scarcely stand the thought of the hole left, in lives, hearts and families, by the death of a child.

That said, the fewer families we subject to this agony, the better. More losses will not make theirs any less painful and the sad fact is that there is nothing in Afghanistan but losses for Canada.

146

End the war now. We've done our share. No more Canadian lives for Afghanistan.

147

Now should we all forget our own opinions about this war and believe that these men and women died for a good cause....what else can a parent believe in...but to expect the rest of us to feel this way too is not reality.

Human loss is just that, Human loss. It still does not make War a good thing...it is the Love of Power not the Power of Love that the majority have bought into. ....

Yay or Nay....it's how each human has a right to feel....without criticism or judgement.

148

yeah, yeah, yeah.... the usual in the silliness. Yes, it was the Liberals who sent Canadian forces to Afghanistan - but not... did you get that?.... not in a combat mission.

And that my friend, is TOTAL BS, the Afghanistan mission was NEVER a peacekeeping mission, it was ALWAYS a combat mission, which once again proves how easily duped your type are. Feel free, instead of the usual tirade of furious "thumbs down" keyboarding, to prove me wrong. I will in fact mow your lawn for the rest of my natural born life.

Bill Graham, Liberal Minister of National Defence under Jean Chretien.....

http://www.rcmi.org/archives/otter%20and%20commentary/08-1%20Otter_Graham.pdf

One of the things that I learned when I became Defence Minister from General Hillier, from General D’Allaire, from General Leslie, from Major General Louis MacKenzie and so many experienced and talented members

of our armed forces, was that the concept that many Canadians held, and some still hold, of a Canadian role as peacekeepers in the classical peacekeeping situation (the Cyprus-type mission) is a thing of the past, or perhaps, was always a thing more of myth than of substance, confined to rare circumstances where warring parties wished to stop fighting but needed impartial help in doing so.

I learned that the type of troops that are required in today’s environment are troops that are combat-ready, well and appropriately equipped for their task, given the training and the leadership which will enable them to accomplish their goals, and furnished with rules of engagement

that enable them to engage actively with those who are out to destroy the society which they are there to protect.

149

My Father was a Vet in WWII and I have the greatest respect for our armed forces. However, I do think we need to get out of Afghanistan. Recently, CBC interviewed a retired Russian commander who likened this war to Vietnam - a no win scenario.

150

There are forty five countries participating in the ISAF Afghanistan and only twenty five countries have suffered casualties. The Majority of the casualties, are spit between USA Canada and GB, with a small percentage of casualties from countries we conquered in previous wars making up about ten percent of the casualties.

151

Not so happy with the propoganda type news piece on the National. How can these parents want other parents to go through what they are going through after the loss of their children.

152

I feel for the families of soldiers who lost their loved ones. I understand how they don't want the sacrifice of their family members to be in vain. Nobody wants to think that their loved ones died for nothing.

But, if you take a look at Karzai, Islam and history in general, unless the West is willing to commit to a 50 to 100 year mission in the end Afghanistan will revert to either one party one man rule or even worse, Islamic Republic with partial or full sharia. The only thing I can say to the families is their loved ones did not die for lofty, political partisan goals but to defend the innocent and fight with their brethren. Nobody joins the military to "spread democracy" and even if the Afghanistan mission is a failure (as it likely will be long term) they should never view the sacrifice of their loved ones as in vain.

153

These families were allowed into a country at war to put forth a political position of the government of this country, which has no claim or right to even be there in the first place.

Canada needs to to get out of that country as soon as possible.

Its an utter joke that Canada is training the police,how to police when in this country the RCMP are utterly shamed by their lack of compassion.How can they train others to police their own country.

I lived in occupied Ireland and saw the way the British army treated us. They had not a clue.

Canada has not a clue either. I see soldiers playing war games
I long to live peace and to see peace everywhere.

You glorify war,I doubt any of these families really understand and they seem to be caught up in the game.

Perhaps they should have encouraged their children not to join the game of war in the first place.

My pity is with the folk of Afghanistan and their plight. They used to live in peace until other countries thought they could rule them. Leave them alone.

In fact I think most people of Canada would say lets all lay down our arms and live peace,

If we do not tune into peace we are headed for a complete disaster,Do you think the earth can sustain all this violence.

There is no right or wrong here. Their is only war and peace.
Peace will never come thru the barrel of a gun.

I bet these dead soldiers would say the same.

154

When you consider the BILLIONS squandered by all our governments over the years, how can you bitch about any money being spent (if any was in fact spent) to honour our trrops both serving and fallen, and to bring some closure to these soldiers families.

Politics aside, to all our men and women of the CF serving all over the world and assiting us here at home: Thank You.

155

"And that my friend, is TOTAL BS, the Afghanistan mission was NEVER a peacekeeping mission"

in reply to my correction in fact that Canada was first sent to Afghanistan in a support, not a combat role.

However, D.D., my facts are solid even if my language was casual - yes, the Americans had started a combat mission - and Canada, under the Liberals, joined in a supportive, not combat role.

I note that you didn't quibble with the fact that it was Harper who turned Canada's role into a combat mission - and in Khandahar with his 'Canada is going to fight the war on terror' speech.

I'm not sure why the quibbling over this - but surely you're not trying to shift the responsibility for the mess of the mission, the high number of casualties, and the questions about detainee transfer onto a political party which has not been running the country for the past five years. All this is Harper's show - at least start with that one fact

156

The government lied to the troops and to their families. Both the Liberals and Conservatives were compliant. The only objective of the mission was to gain political clout in NATO and the non elected military bureaucracy were the ones who pushed the hardest.

157

You liberals got us there in the first place, at least you could show some sympathy to the fallen.
God bless our fallen.

Why is it that you lefties never comeback with anything to say. Maybee its because you dont care that our soldiers die as you fight against them.

It's really sad to see when the lefties cant even say a condolence to the family. Or people have to disagree with comments like sorry for your loss. Thats a disgrace.

It's all your fault that were there so get some balls and realize that were in a war.

Not padycake with the Taliban

158

It would appear - as Lord Anthony mentioned - that this story as it appears here, is incomplete.

All those relatives, including uncles and aunts don't just fly10-12 km. to Kandahar on a whim.

It would be interesting to know the details about the origins of the idea for the journey, the organization of the trip itself...who arranged it and ponied up the fares and expenses.

The point here is not to denigrate the memories of our soldiers, who were killed by an enemy we have never understood or correctly identified...rather the point is - who organized it and why...and for what purpose.

If this was the idea of the Harper government and the purpose of the trip was to garner support for an extended mission, then we have a right to know those details. Moreover those covering the story have a responsibility to include that information.

There's a big difference between a spontaneous expression of sorrow, and remembrance for loved ones lost...and a project organized by a government as a kind of propaganda exercise.

It would be good to have all the facts.

159

Most people are termed " results driven." Unfortunately, full peaceful way
of life like we enjoy, is almost impossible without a committment of at
least another generation of troops from world wide...

The USA was the primary in this Afghanistan war, rushing through the country and onto Iraq. They did a shoddy job, and did not secure peace in either country ! And, now they're looking to Iran.

So, results show that including Vietnam, the USA led forces can't get the job
done.. There is no lasting peace in Afghanistan, nor in Iraq, as well as Taliban or Muslim terrorists are causing havoc worldwide..

Retired military buddies have their sons & daughters involved in this now, and no doubt, theirs' and mine grandchildren will be involved. What we do not hear though is families of MPs being involved...

For centuries, the Middle East has not known a peace as we enjoy in the western world... mainly as over there, it's a different kettle of fish, and a totally different way of life..

My condolences still to those who have lost loved ones, and to those injured, however, this war is quite similar to Vietnam - no winners !

160

You must be insane. Having my son serve in Afganistan, there was not a day that I did not think about him and hope for his safe return. Their culture is thousands of years old and ours in hundreds. We cannot begin to change whom they are and should not try. Let them sort their own cultural differences out, between themselves. A Pilgrimage? You have that right Grim.....

161

Whatever happened to the triple D strategy of Defence, Development and Diplomacy in terms of the Afghan Mission? To back out of this completely would be to waste all the effort, blood and treasure our country has expeneded. To try and just remove our armed forces reduces our level of influence to near nil. If only we had a political family with the courage and committment of these families then perhaps we would be tallking about how to commit to the final phase of the mission and not how captured enemy insurgents may or may not have been mistreated.

162

A few comments here pointing the finger at "lefties" for not supporting this war. How do these people know that a certain comment comes from a "lefty"? The "lefties" (Liberals) are only about 30% of voters and the "righties" a little higher according to polls. That leaves about 40% of non-lefties and non-righties in this country.

Corect me if I am wrong but the "righty" government put us in Afghan in the first place. But in a training and rebuilding role.

Our "lefty" government changed that role into one of a combat mission. A move that surprised many world leaders.

I am not a "lefty" or a "righty", whatever those terms mean, and I believe that this war will not be won without a huge sacrifice by all Nato forces. By that I mean a war that could last for another 10 years or more with a continued accupation and a continued loss of our soldiers.

Our last soldiers have just pulled out of Croatia after 20 years of being there.

163

Reading this thread, and others like it, I am always amazed how much ardent believers in the necessity and justness of this conflict (an understandable position....) utterly despise those of a differing view.....I mean, that Canadians who oppose or have principled reservations about our role are somehow by definition 'soldier-hating, terror-coddling, semi-traitorous Liberal-lefties'????

Come on now. That's just as juvenile supposing anyone who supports the war is a 'jack-booted, crypto-Fascist American stooge'.

You want to show respect to the dead?

Grow up.

All of you.

On both 'sides' of the issue.

164

Afghanistan will never change. You can keep the Canadian forces there for the next 200 years or more and you will not change the culture of the people. The only thing you are doing by keeping our forces there, is needlessly causing deaths of many more young Canadian soldiers.

165

Bless these folks. They are heros too!!!

166

Canada doesn't have "children" dying there. They have grown men and women who have dedicated themselves, with fully functioning brains, to an ideal they believe in. They all volunteered. These aren't the lambs led to slaughter of 1914, though even that too is something of a myth that begun to be perpetuated in the 1960s, not by the veterans themselves.

167

«Well this unashamed leftwinger actually served there - did you? I highly doubt it as there is a whole class of rightwing keyboard warriors in Canada who think they have the final say on anything and everything to do with our military

Don't be cowed into not speaking your minds fellow Canadians! Don't let these quasi-fascists dictate the discourse of our national will. This former soldier and veteran says it's way beyond time we leave Afghanistan to its own devices. There are other places in this world in far more need of our assistance than that place! »

Based on what you posted I *highly* doubt you have served in Afghanistan. In fact, I'm going to go so far as to say that, unless by "served" you mean "serving double-doubles" to our soldiers there, you are lying.

It's not like people are compelled to tell the truth on the internet, right?

But assuming you aren't lying, all of the guys I know who are in the miltary and have served in Afghanistan wouldn't want someone like you anywhere near a unit they're serving in. Your attitude is poisonous.

168

Not much detail about the How & Wherefore of this journey - what’s of ‘important personal’ significance about Kandahar Airfield, for example, the only place we are told they gathered. This, & especially the “Let’s give it time” argument about backing off from the scheduled withdrawal, reeks of Federal propaganda.

Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2010/04/03/afghanistan-canadian-easter-visit.html#socialcomments#ixzz0kGvABf9V

169

My heart mourns with these folks, for their loss and their sacrifice. These are wonderful, kind and loving folks to be sure, but I feel they are somewhat deluded.

The Canadian dead in Afghanistan are career soldiers. It is their job. It's a dangerous job and some will be killed. I don't believe they gave their lives as much as their lives were taken from them.

We have yet to have explained why we are there. Until we know, it will be hard to support this mission.

PS: I think may well be a PR move. I mean come on, isn't this a war zone? Do we really need families showing up disrupting events and using up resources?

170

listen to the families and not your own selfish desires.

171

Does "fallen" mean dead? It does, doesn't it? The CBC is doing no favours for dead soldiers by pretending they're just characters in a melodrama, surely.

172

I believe we need to stay until the job is done the the enemies of freedom and equality, the Taliban, are defeated & Afghanistan is a democratic country where all person enjoy liberty.

I noted someone asked we went there in the first place. Have you already forgotten the daily atrocities that were commited by the Taliban when they were in power ?

Have you forgotten they provided sanctuary to the very same people who saw fit to fly airplanes into NY, Washington and PA and who MURDERED 24 Canadians and thousands of others on September 11 ?

Boy do some of you have short memories.

173

Reeks of coercion of the sad parents by our Federal Govt and the Defense Department who are attempting to follow the directive of Obama and Clinton without having to brazenly tell us that yes more of our young must die in Afghanistan . Let the rest of the members of this UN group send their young , we have done our part and then some. Very sad for all the parents who lost their children and I understand the parent who felt the need to stand where his child last stood, that kind of grief is felt by all who lost children over there , but sending more to their deaths will not bring back those lost , nor will it add anything to how the world views Canada , we have been there and done our part now it is time for others to step up to the plate. We have always been a peace keeping nation not one that goes to war easily and because other nations feel we should . We are not asking the U.S. and the other NATO countries to pull out but to give our boys and girls the thanks they deserve and bring them home.

174

«I suppose your right if you count traffic accidents, and suicides.

Your statement is blatantly false, just another feeble attempt by the right wing harper socialists to sing the praises of this war. Hallelujah and praise the war.»

Well Dewey have you been there or are you just blabbering on about something you know nothing about again.

Accident or suicide big deal it is still someones life or are you just too blinded by your hatred for everyone else in the world that the simple task of reasonable comparison is beyond your mental capacity.

The fact is we are at war and statements coming from a person that only thinks of his own Self preservation is irrelevant.

And BTW if it were any of your business to begin with i could care less about Harper and his Socialist party as you put it or the Canadian Government for that matter.

175

to the families in kandahar, blessings you have payed a horrid price to the government of canada when are you going to stand up and remind the citizens of this country why we went to afghanistan in the first place and exactly what our mission was and still is . it was my understanding we went to return the country to the afghani people to eradicate the taliban to allow girls/women the right to education . to return infastructure to a country that has been under seige for many years . and mr harper to leave as you plan in 2011 is to cut and run something you once swore you would never do . so could you honestly face these families in kandahar somehow i doubt it . war is never pretty it is cruel but we once had a mission to bring peace to the people of afghanistan and that is exactly what every soldier that died who has a parent in kandahar will always remember . as for you mr harper what will you remember .

176

What's so hard to understand about the mission?

The Taliban government aided and abetted Al Queda who were responsible for Sept 11. The Taliban would not turn over the terrorists and continued with their oppressive and brutal regime so NATO went in to unseat them.

Today there is some form of democratic government, hospitals and schools are being built and the lot of women in general is improving.

This sacrifice although not complete has not been in vain.

Unfortunate that the glass half empty crowd can't see the forest for the trees.

177

This is Canada's version of Vietnam! WE ARE NOT HOLDING THE WINNING HAND, it is time to bring the military home that should never had been there in the first place..

178

My heart goes out to the moms and dads who made the journey to be where their loved ones were last alive, working and giving their all. May they be comforted by healing messages from all of us who care.

179

This to me is Propaganda at it's Worst. I bet these are "Hand Picked" loyal CONS used to PROMOTE the War,I'm surprised Harper wasn't there for the photo-Op,it would be much better for the Lemmings than at a Food Bank that supplies Food to needy Vets. I look at this the same as "Wearing Red on friday" and the "highway of heroes' PROPAGANDA to sell an UNJUST War.

Funny in the TWO World Wars at Least the Propaganda had everyone Scarificing Not Just the "TROOPS' and thier Families. This has been a "Cleansed" War since Harper, he wanted to HIDE the Deaths of the "Troops" to make easier the Selling of the Shoddy bill of Goods.

The CBC also since the Harper Croney was INSTALLED has lacked the Quality that Most of it's loyal viewers have come to Expect,they now Cater to the Howlin' Harper Cult and IGNORE the people that have kept the CBC in Operation over the many years. Well this is one ONCE Loyal Viewer that could Care LESS what happens to CBC. They are Now a "Government RUN' not a "Publicly OWNED" and are trying more to DUMB DOWN instead of INFORM the Public.

180

Googlea58 Wrote have no sympathy for Canadians dying in these illegal wars, we should be there. Thousands of innocent people slaughtered & they still can't find the boogie man or any weapons of mass destruction. No tears from this cowboy.

As a serving member of the Canadian Forces and someone who has three tours in Afghanistan, you should be ashamed of yourself for this comment. Furthur more as the bumber sticker says if you don't stand behind the troops feel free to stand in front.

181

«We have always been a peace keeping nation not one that goes to war easily and because other nations feel we should »

You *really* need to read up on our involvement in the Boer War and World Wars 1 & 2 if you believe what you wrote.

182

I can understand the parents of dead soldiers wanting the mission to continue so that their children will not have died in vain. How many thousands of soldiers died in Viet Nam and for what. We can not establish our foreign policy based on the sacrifices of our soldiers. One parent who witnessed the military build up felt confident that the war was turning. This may be emotionally touching but hardly a valid assessment of how the mission is going. Throughout human history millions have died for no reason while waging war. I'm afraid this will be the same. Extending the mission will only result in more useless deaths. This war has become a recruitment promotion for the Taliban and their like. All we are doing with this kind of military occupation is building up the other side. This mission is wrong headed and should be terminated now if not 2011. This is a no win situation for families who have lost loved ones and for our country. It will not make the world a safer place.

183

"with a small percentage of casualties from countries we conquered in previous wars making up about ten percent of the casualties."

Would you explain your meaning of your above comment. What countries did we conquer in previous wars?

184

the forces go out to provide security for the average people of afghanistan,not as some of you people think to find the republic of taliban, but to push the insurgents away from the population. once the people find they are safer and now better off with education and employment the area naturally prospers with agriculture and other employment that would not be there with the rule of the taliban . canada is helping the country not in just employment but training the afghan people to better their lives in belieiving in themselves. this is the true story that should be on every bodies mind not the fact that sometimes when you mix it up with other combatants good people die,these families truly believe in what their sons and daughters did is a noble cause as do i. getting out of combat is a good thing yes , but please lets not forget we need to keep up with the training for these people to succeed. so if we must pull out we should leavetainers in theater to keep the training going." ubique quo fas et gloria ducunt "

185

You have JUST validated my 32 year career in the Canadian
Forces. It was a success, obviously, as you can rant without fear of someone giving you a couple of LEFTS to go along with your exercising your RIGHTS.

Carry on and enjoy. I helped maintain those rights you have, and are exercising so freely. Its what makes Canada so great.

186

I wonder if the family of the General that got fragged in her sleep is there

Tower A B and tower 7 were not brought to dust because of a few guys with box cutters it’s a scam and since the family's are in a country that we invaded to avenge 911 that by the mere fact that they have there sites on the wrong enemies
THEY ARE GIVING THE PERPETRATORS OF 911 PERMISSION TO DO IT AGAIN

Real sad thing is if the keep believing the main stream media then Shirley there son’s and daughters have died in vain.

And CBC and Harper's group you are guilty of spreading this lie

187

Opponents of the mission are far more guilty of the offence he outlined than mission supporters are. By far.

188

Quit calling the fallen to parade.

If my understanding of Easter is correct ... the fallen are embracing each other in love and understanding, as we post.

And in case anyone cares ... I find that sticking a mike in the face of the parent of a fallen trooper to be about as low as one can go.

And that goes doubly for inviting comment on the right or wrong of dropping bombs on cave dwellers and commenting on whether or not God's love extends to all his children or not.

No wonder it rains ... God must weep.

189

I must say I really feel for the lost of these families. One can only imagine their grief and heartache. The lost of our brave young men and women is a wound Canada will alway bare and we will always be indebted to them for their sacarfice. My prays are with them and their families.

That being said I for one would like to know whose idea it was to let this event take place? Was it an idea of the Canadian Forces or the government of the day? It smacks of propaganda at it's lowest? To use grieving families to advance an agenda would be unforgiveable. It was only months ago that the government was denying opposite MPs the approval to go to Afganistan; however, this event was orchestrated, and must have been supported at the highest level. I hope this event was not to once again use the military for political cover and a possible course change. I spent far too many years in the Armed Forces and in and around government, that I have developed a keen sense for the levels some will go to advance an agenda. If so, those who arrange this are the low of the low.

190

Who cares? It doesn't matter how many of our sons/daughters die in Afghanistan. We are an occupying force in a country we have no business being in.

191

"Yes, it was the Liberals who sent Canadian forces to Afghanistan - but not... did you get that?.... not in a combat mission."

Get real. Afghanistan has been a combat mission from day 1. Period.

192

Spilling more blood to "justify" blood already spilled, has got to be the number one worst and most illogical reason to extend a war. Because some parents feel the very personal need to somehow be assured that their child did not die in vain is grossly selfish. What about the next parent whose child must die to "justify' the previous deaths?

193

What now their sad because they sent their kids off to fight in an illegal war that can't be won?

194

"but most of all bring Our Children Home!"

Stop referring to us as "our children". We're not children and we're not yours. Thank you. That is all.

195

Canadians must get over the peacekeeper syndrome. The idea that Canada is inherently a peace keeping country is pure mythology. To start with Canada has done far less peace keeping than most people think. We have not done any significant peace keeping in the past 30 years. The peace keeping missions we have been involved in have been abject failures. At best UN peacekeepers have had no effect and more often, at worst, UN peacekeepers have been bystanders as the peace was not being kept. The idea of peacekeeping without the use of force is unworkable nonsense. In reality the mission in Afghanistan is closer to real peacekeeping than most other peacekeeping missions are. If you are unwilling or unable to enforce the peace you are not a peacekeeper, you are an idle observer. The reality is that most UN peacekeeping missions have been and still are fraught with atrocities with UN peacekeepers standing by and doing nothing, and in some sad cases being actively involved.

196

«For crying out loud, taxmeplz, look at what blind partisanship has got us so far ! A government that can't fundtion. »

Recently Sixteen University of Regina Professors sent an open letter to UofR President Vianne Timmons protesting Project Hero, a program which waives tuition fees and provides one thousand dollars per year to "“dependents of Canadian Forces personnel deceased while serving with an active mission.”

The letter goes on to accuse Project Hero of glorifying Canadian imperialism in Afghanistan, and demands that this vital program be canceled.These individuals didn't think twice about signing a despicable letter that insults our Canadian Forces, our history, and targets the family of fallen soliders.

The University of Regina bestowed an honorary degree to Michael Ignatieff in 2003. On March 17 Ignatieff and Ralph Goodale, toured the University of Regina as part of the Liberals university cross Canada university tour, part 2. Professor Joyce Green one of the authors of this letter used an excerpt of Ralph Goodale's in her 2005 presentation to the Canadian Political Science Association called Anti-Racist Challenges for Saskatchewan. Professor Jeffery Webber also an author of this letter is an editor of the New Socialist.

http://www.newsocialist.org/index.php?id=14

where the letter appears on the home page.

Liberals and NDP use every opportunity to discredit the Canadian Forces by any means possible.Liberals and NDP use professors and they use students to attempt to manipulate public opinion. Liberals and NDP have created a university brainwashing machine to form a cult of Anti-Canadian Forces anarchists. Save your rhetoric OntarioRuMP .

197

Our thoughts are with the families and friends of the fallen...thank you for serving...we anxiously await the return of my son from Kandahar in 3 weeks...

198

These sons and daughters did not die in vain if Canada pulls its forces from Afghanistan. The death of these young people like all the others who have perished while serving have helped steer that country on to a course where all its people - no matter their gender - will have access to education, hope and opportunity. Canada, Afghanistan and the world owes a debt to these soldiers for their sacrifice.

Yes its time for Canada to end the mission. Canada has done more than most in its duty in Afghanistan and its time to come to home, rest and regroup for the next inevitable conflict that will need our talent, energy, capital and determination.

There are many countries around the globe who are not engaged in developing stability and human safety in this region. If the world really cares about Afghanistan, then let those who stand on the sidelines take their turn. Canada has certainly done us proud.

199

«What now their sad because they sent their kids off to fight in an illegal war that can't be won?»
One of my favorites. Please explain what makes the Afghanistan conflict illegal? Oh sorry, you can't because it isn't.

«Who cares? It doesn't matter how many of our sons/daughters die in Afghanistan. We are an occupying force in a country we have no business being in.»

Another one of my favorites. Occupying? We are NOT fighting AGAINST Afghanistan, we are fighting BESIDE them, and repeating it to yourself over and over does NOT make it true ...... either of you.

200

Yes richard say it like it is, an illegal invasion of an independent country.

201

«To spill more blood to justify blood already spilled must be a new low for silly comments.»

If anymore blood is being spilled (hope not) than it is to finish what those that came before hoped to achieve, sacrificed and even gave their life.

202

«Our thoughts are with the families and friends of the fallen...thank you for serving...we anxiously await the return of my son from Kandahar in 3 weeks...»

Thank him from myself and my family, give him a hug from us as well. I have a son aspiring to be part of the forces, he is "aiming" for artillery, and I am VERY proud of his decision.

203

Nine families out of how many? It just seems too staged to me. I have every sympathy for any family that has lost anyone in war. I just do not need the government trying to earn points from that loss. We all know that not all families of the fallen in Afghanistan think the same way as these nine.

I really look at this as another trial balloon of the Harper government. I thought the decision was already made by parliament.

204

«I suppose your right if you count traffic accidents, and suicides.»

«Your statement is blatantly false, just another feeble attempt by the right wing harper socialists to sing the praises of this war. Hallelujah and praise the war.»

Well Dewey have you been there or are you just blabbering on about something you know nothing about again.

Look up the countries participating, then look up the casualties, the statement that all countries participating have suffered casualties is just plain not true, no matter how much you want it to be true, and yes I served there,.not that that is any sort of prerequisite for posting accurate statements about the conflict. It appears that the majority of people who want to continue this slaughter of third world indigents are those with nothing to lose, and those safely removed from the pointy end of the spear.

Many NATO countries with troops in Afghanistan have 'national caveats' that restrict how their troops may be used. Britain, Canada, and the U.S. are doing most of the fighting in southern Afghanistan, while French, German, and Italian troops are deployed in the quieter north.

205

If that gas pipeline is not successfully built and those heroin dealer's grip on power not cemented our soldiers will have died in vein. Oh right, I forgot. If NATO doesn't see Canada as a fierce fighting force and give us elevated clout our soldiers will have died in vein and the dream of a few career bureaucrats will be shattered.

206

«I read it already. Opponents of the mission are far more guilty of the offence he outlined than mission supporters are. By far. »

That is a comment that is argumentive and not based on facts.

207

With all due respect to the families.

More Canadian soldiers dying will only inflict on other families the same grief that these families already know.

In all of history, no outside nation or army has ever improved Afghanistan; not the British, not the Persians, not the Romans, not the Greeks, not the Russians. Let's learn form history and get the hell out of there.

208

have to say one thing. This is a very touchy topic. I have retired from the military from 10 years of service with the Royal Canadian Regiment. I have also done 3 Tours to Afganistan. Its hard. At first I really thought we can make a difference. But as the other tours went by its hard to keep that same out look. I've lost friends over there and I had to see their families weep. I left the military cause I didn't want my wife, family or friends to go through what these families had to endure. Now I'm a father and the thought of my son go over there makes me shiver with fear. So I have to say this. To my fallen comrades your life was not in vain. We will always honour and there is change even maybe small there is a positive change in Afganistan but I think its time to stop the combat role, give our troops a break, rebuild the ranks and if we are to stay its in a support role. A mentor role to help Afgans help themselves. Like the old saying goes you can give a person a fish to feed himself for a day. Teach him to fish and he can feed himself indefnatly. Might not be quoted right but you get what I mean.

To the families. You are as strong as what your son, daughter, nephew, grandson/daughter, brother/sister. Our thoughts are always with you. From a soldiers perspective I can understand how you feel. Can't say I know what you are enduring as I never had to endure what you had to endure but I do understand your feelings as I'm always on the fence on the issue to stay or not stay.

Pro Patria

209

The Honorable Bill Graham, Minister of National Defence uner Jean Chretien, speech in parliament regarding Afghanistan and it's mission, taken from Hansard. I highlighted the relevant part for you....

go to section 2025

http://www2.parl.gc.ca/HousePublications/Publication.aspx?DocId=2110734&Language=E&Mode=1&Parl=38&Ses=1#Int-1471105

«I need not remind this House of the long and unfortunate history of war and misrule that has characterized Afghanistan's recent history culminating in the rule of the Taliban and their support for all al-Qaeda and their attack on New York.

That is why we were there as early as 2002, in Kandahar, in a combat mission

to deal with international terrorism. It is why we pressed for NATO to take over ISAF and then subsequently provided some 2,000 troops to a mission led by General Rick Hillier, today the Chief of the Defence Staff.»

210

«The peace keeping missions we have been involved in have been abject failures. At best UN peacekeepers have had no effect and more often, at worst, UN peacekeepers have been bystanders as the peace was not being kept.»

This is a false comment.

211

«What countries did we conquer in previous wars?»

World war 2, Germany Italy, France, Belgium, Holland, Denmark, Austria,

Cold war, add all the Soviet satellite states, like Poland Estonia, Latvia, Cheks, Hungary Albania,

The first NATO Secretary General, Lord Ismay, famously stated the organization's goal was

"to keep the Russians out, the Americans in, and the Germans down".


212

MILITARY FAMILIES MOURN 1,000TH TROOP DEATH IN AFGHANISTAN, PARTICIPATE IN NATIONWIDE VIGILS AND CALL ON CONGRESS TO BRING OUR TROOPS HOME NOW

Family Members of Fallen Soldiers and Families of Troops Currently Deployed in Afghanistan and Iraq Available for Interview. February 23, 2010 –

As we face the 1,000th troop death, the next horrific milestone in the Afghanistan War, Military Families Speak Out (MFSO), an organization of over 4,000 military families opposed to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, calls on the 111th Congress to honor the fallen and prevent further deaths by taking action to end the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

http://mfso.org/article.php?id=1366

213

of interest
April 4, 2010

New York: In an attempt to garner public support, US Marines engaged in an intense battle with the Taliban in Marja, have been offering thousands of dollars a week to the local residents as compensation for property damage, but the move has backfired as the insurgents are using the same money against the international forces stationed in Afghanistan.

With an aim to win over worried locals in Marja, the Marines were paying them compensation for property damage or putting them at work, a tactical approach which helped the US turn the tide in Iraq, but in Afghanistan the move seems to be helping the insurgents more rather than reducing the massive anti-American sentiment in the war ravaged country.

Both Afghan and US officials are aware of the fact that the Taliban is using the compensation for acquiring arms and ammunitions to be used against foreign troops, but they say it is hard to recognise the extremists among the masses.

"You shake hands with them, but you don't know they are Taliban. They have the same clothes, and the same style. And they are using the money against the Marines. They are buying I.E.D.'s and buying ammunition, everything,"

The New York Times quoted Colonel. Ghulam Sakhi, an Afghan National Police commander, as saying.

"My greatest fear right now is not knowing if I have put money into the pockets of the Taliban,"

said Major James Coffman, civil affairs leader for the third Battalion, sixth Marines.

"We've got to re-evaluate our definition of the word 'enemy'.

Most people here identify themselves as Taliban. We have to readjust our thinking so we're not trying chase the Taliban out of Marja, we're trying to chase the enemy out. We have to deal with these people,"

said Brigadier General Larry Nicholson

214

Before 9/11 the people of Afghanistan needed help and the world ignored them.

I will listen to what our soldiers are saying about their mission and continue to support them and their families while they do their noble work.

215

Afghanistan is not a terrorist base. For the purpose of planning attacks, it never was. Planning for the 9/11 attacks was done in Germany and the United States. It was carried out by a small group of mostly Saudi nationals.

If the US wants to stop terrorism it must learn to stop intruding in Muslim homelands. Before the Americans interfered with Afghan social and land reform efforts in 1979, in order to draw the Soviets into a ruinous war, (Robert Gates CIA Memoir: FROM THE SHADOWS) no one heard of Osama Bin-laden, al-Qaeda, and the Taliban. Before the Taliban refused American requests for an energy corridor through Afghanistan, (A PIPELINE THROUGH A TROUBLED LAND, John Foster), there was no mention of their treatment of Afghan women.

When the west finally leaves that troubled land, the Afghans will most likely “reset” to 1979 and continue with their own natural evolution as a nation. It is not “a given” that the Taliban will re-emerge as other Afghan tribes are also influential forces to be reckoned with.

216

«Look up the countries participating, then look up the casualties, the statement that all countries participating have suffered casualties is just plain not true, no matter how much you want it to be true, and yes I served there,.not that that is any sort of prerequisite for posting accurate statements about the conflict. It appears that the majority of people who want to continue this slaughter of third world indigents are those with nothing to lose, and those safely removed from the pointy end of the spear.»

The ONLY two countries with troops in Afghanistan that have not suffered deaths are Albania and Croatia, both with less than 300 troops there. They are currently serving under the command of the Turkish and Italian troops. Mostly situated in the Vardak province, and are providing security for an area that is already cleared. Perhaps you would prefer the soldiers to clear an area and move on with leaving security so they can get attacked from behind? Or perhaps you would prefer we clear an area, and leave it unguarded so the Taliban can return and continue their slaughter of women and homosexuals?

Feel free to explain to the people, since you "have been there", exactly who is responsible for the VAST MAJORITY of civilian deaths in Afghanistan.........

217

..., and many of them say Ottawa should not pull out of Afghanistan entirely next year."

And what qualifies them to make brilliant decisions like this? (Sarcasm) We shouldn't have been there in the first place. If they had any wisdom they would have counseled their soldier relatives NOT to go to Afghanistan, and those soldiers would all be alive today.

218

Slade 1: I would be very interested in hearing about a peacekeeping success story. I do not know of any. When I think of UN peacekeeping Rwanda and Dar Fur come to mind; not my idea of resounding success stories.

219

«It shouldn’t really matter what these few people say. We voted, our nation, a democratic nation has collectively stated that we don’t want to waste any more money and/or lives over in the Hindu Kush fighting phantom barbarians, so that America can continue exporting heroin all over the world in record quantities... »

What a ridiculous statement yet it is one of the most popular comment posted in here today.

Do people SERIOUSLY think the USA is in Afghanistan so it can export heroin?

People who believe this also believe 911 was an inside job. There is no reasoning with this kind of people.

220

«What countries did we conquer in previous wars?»

«World war 2, Germany Italy, France, Belgium, Holland, Denmark, Austria,

Cold war, add all the Soviet satellite states, like Poland Estonia, Latvia, Cheks, Hungary Albania,

The first NATO Secretary General, Lord Ismay, famously stated the organization's goal was "to keep the Russians out, the Americans in, and the Germans down".»

Dewey, your sense of history is SERIOUSLY twisted, we did not CONQUER any of those nations. Feel free to supply documentation as to who is in control of each country you list, I'm pretty sure they are all still autonomous.

221

It appears the CBC has dropped my comment.. can't let truth get in the way of a good false-dichotomy, fantasy debate, on one Al Qaeda Taliban and other terrorists right outside our door, on the other side truth and democracy, and "can't we just get the job done"? Google Ziofascism

222

RE: Canada Continuing to Participate in Afgan War After 2012

To paraphrase Albert Einstien;

" Stupididy is reapeatedly doing the same thing and yet expecting a different result. "

If 140+ lives and 20+ Billion $ over 7 years has resulted in little or no change in Afgan security & developement? Why do more ?

LET'S GET OUT OF THERE NOW

223

Why do we even discuss this topic...Canada has no right to be there in the first place. To fight opression? To fight for the rights of women? To fight for the hearts and minds of the tribes? Then we may as well start a war in Saudi Arabia, or in any of the North African domains. Or are we just supporting the US War Industry? Ther many tribes led by different Warlords in Afghanistan they all have one thing in common...take the invaders money during the day and kill them at night. This was a botched hunt for Al Quead, turned into a war with Afghanistan and we got sucked into it by sucking up to the US. There is nothing taken away by Canadian Forces leaving from the dead and the image of the force. So Canada get out ...or you will be part of the problem and not near any solution. Russia had mare than 25,000 men in there and after ten years had to put their tail between their legs and leave,

beaten by the Mujahadeen in sandals and without gunships and tanks.

224

Afghanistan is a true hardship mission with only a few able to endure. The few that did endure need to tell us if it was worth it and with no coercion from bloody capitalists . However if we are there for capitalist reasons, explain the payoff please.

225

CONQUER definition

1 : to gain or acquire by force of arms
2 : to overcome by force of arms : vanquish
3 : to gain mastery over or win by overcoming obstacles or opposition

So you believe that we just headed from Normand easward and didn't fire a shot, the Nazia just melted like butter and gave up peacfully, try telling that to the families of the victims of world war two.

226

«Before 9/11 the people of Afghanistan needed help and the world ignored them. »

Except for the billions they got from the CIA, and the billions Russia poured in during their conflict with the same people we are fighting now. Afghanistan has received more funding in the last forty years than any other nation on earth. Some one has been spending billions there to as you call it " help them" Nobody ignored them we just backed the wrong side.

227

About soldiers dying in vain ....

I'm sure that if you asked a dying soldier as to whether he would want his fellow soldiers to fight on so that the dying soldier would not die in vain .... the dying soldier would tell his comrades to quit and not to stay on his account.

NATO flew these people into Afghanistan for propaganda purposes and military families readily participated.

The closer we get to withdrawl the more propaganda the media will sell us.

If Canadian soldiers move to Kabul for training, NATO will continue to bomb and destroy other parts of Afghanistan and force the insurgents out of these areas and into Kabul.

American drones will chase the Taliban into any area where the Canadian military may be.

"A classified CIA analysis from March, outlines possible PR-strategies to shore up public support in Germany and France for a continued war in Afghanistan.

After the dutch government fell on the issue of dutch troops in Afghanistan last month, the CIA became worried that similar events could happen in the countries that post the third and fourth largest troop contingents to the ISAF-mission.

The proposed PR strategies focus on pressure points that have been identified within these countries.

For France it is the sympathy of the public for Afghan refugees and women.

For Germany it is the fear of the consequences of defeat (drugs, more refugees, terrorism) as well as for Germany's standing in the NATO.

The memo is an recipe for the targeted manipulation of public opinion in two NATO ally countries, written by the CIA."

Public Apathy Enables Leaders To Ignore Voters.

(PDF Document)

http://file.wikileaks.org/file/cia-afghanistan.pdf

Calm

228

«just another feeble attempt by the right wing harper socialists to sing the praises of this war »

Wow; right wing Harper socialists.

Oxymoron anyone!

229

« I would be very interested in hearing about a peacekeeping success story. I do not know of any. When I think of UN peacekeeping Rwanda and Dar Fur come to mind; not my idea of resounding success stories.»

Talk to a soldier who's worn the blue helmet. He'll tell you all about the myth of peacekeeping.

230

How despicable Harper and his side kick, Peter (Judas) MacKay hiding behind the skirts of the mothers of the fallen in Afghanistan to avoid war crimes tribunals in the Hauge.

231

« and many of them say Ottawa should not pull out of Afghanistan entirely next year."

« And what qualifies them to make brilliant decisions like this? (Sarcasm)We shouldn't have been there in the first place. If they had any wisdom they would have counseled their soldier relatives NOT to go to Afghanistan, and those soldiers would all be alive today.»

What qualifies you in saying we should pull out expert?!(sarcasm)

Counseling soldiers not to go to war? Unbelievable.

Soldiers now days join the forces precisely for this reason: To go to war and test themselves.

My own son is going over in 2 weeks. He is eager to go.

232

«With all due respect to the families.

More Canadian soldiers dying will only inflict on other families the same grief that these families already know.

In all of history, no outside nation or army has ever improved Afghanistan; not the British, not the Persians, not the Romans, »

Well, of course not the Romans. The Roman Empire futhest eastern border was what is nor Iraq. They never got close to what is now Afghanistan.

I see you Leftes are making up things, yet again, to suit your arguments.

233

«Tower A B and tower 7 were not brought to dust because of a few guys with box cutters it’s a scam and since the family's are in a country that we invaded to avenge 911 that by the mere fact that they have there sites on the wrong enemies

THEY ARE GIVING THE PERPETRATORS OF 911 PERMISSION TO DO IT AGAIN »

I don't know what you are smoking there guy but give it a rest.

Your brain CELL the only one you have left is about to pop and leave you totally brain dead.

Yup and everyone on the planes that flew into the towers were all part of the plan too.

Get a grip moron!

234

apologize! I never will learn to pick my fights better! That comment was unfair of me, and I am truly sorry. Please forgive me!

235

note with interest and amusement that some people do not view the statement “right wing socialist” as an oxymoron; very interesting.

236

and that attitude that you spew is exactly why war is wrong! We are all living breathing, bleeding human beings. We all need the same things to survive, we all need to start loving one another and stop shooting each others heads off and then consider yourselves heroes? Ask your mother what it would feel like to lose her child....even if he was an arrogant pig headed adult.....mother's never ever want to outlive their children....it's just the oath that a mother takes the minute she gives birth. Grow a heart for mankind, be the change you want to see and not through the telescope of your rifle!


237

I'm sorry for the families who have lost son's and daughters but their death's are no reason to prolong the BS of Afghanistan. I have worked for DND for 29 years and most people I know (Mil and Civ) feel this way. The whole situation is a joke. We cannot meet them on their own terms (rules of engagement) so we CANNOT win.

It's time to cut our loses and run. We would be doing more good in the Sudan.

238

«How despicable Harper and his side kick, Peter (Judas) MacKay hiding behind the skirts of the mothers of the fallen in Afghanistan to avoid war crimes tribunals in the Hauge. »

That was about the most laughable thing I've ever read here.

War crimes tribunals for Harper and NcKay, HA! You lefties will grasp at ANYTHING to see them removed from power, won't you?

239

richardengler if you have never heard of right wing socialism then the lessons of world war two have been lost on you.

http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=right+wing+socialism&meta=&aq=1&aqi=g5g-s1g4&aql=&oq=right+wing+s&gs_rfai=

240

«I would be very interested in hearing about a peacekeeping success story. »

I thought you might ask. The first thing you have to understand is what peacekeeping was all about. First, you have two nations or ideologies who are conducting hostilities against each other. They wish to cease hostilities and arrange for a negotiated settlement of their problems. This is usually carried out at the behest of the UN. With the agreement of the leaders of the two hostiles a peacekeeping force is inserted along the border of the two nations. The idea is to prevent incursions from taking place by either side which could disrupt negotiations. Now, the sucess of this mission lies with the negotiators and not the peacekeeping force. Should negotiations break down and the two sides plan to return to hostilities the peacekeeping force is usually extricated from the area as soon as possible. Remember the peacekeeping force while not non-combative does not have the support arms such as artillery, armored, etc. So, there are two elements to every mission. Negotiating and peacekeeping. And, in any mission it is never the peacekeeping that fails, but usually negotiations have broken down.

Richard, any comment you make I won't be able to answer until around 7:00 P.M. this evening. I'm off to Hamilton.

241

«It's time to cut our loses and run. We would be doing more good in the Sudan»

That may or may not be the case, but the African Union has barred any non-African peacekeepers from Sudan, Durfur and pretty much all of Africa, so your point is moot.

We are not allowed to peacekeep in Africa so stop using that as a smokescreen for why we shouldn't be in Afghanistan.

242

«How despicable Harper and his side kick, Peter (Judas) MacKay hiding behind the skirts of the mothers of the fallen in Afghanistan to avoid war crimes tribunals in the Hauge.»

«Wow, are you lefties serious when you write and agree with such stupidity? the Hauge!!! LOL it's The Hague you poor lefty. You're welcome.»

You always know you won the debate when the best the opponent can muster is spelling mistakes.

243

You are completely correct in your description of UN peacekeeping missions. Therefore I would argue that these missions should not be called peacekeeping but rather peace observing missions. Also, as you so correctly point out, the missions only succeed when both parties voluntarily keep the peace i.e.: when peacekeepers are not required. It works out to be analogues to having a police force which can only observe crimes being committed without the power of arrest, only useful in a completely non criminal environment. This is the benign version. What took place in Rwanda and is now taking place in Dar Fur is unconscionable.

244

"Corect me if I am wrong but the "righty" government put us in Afghan in the first place. But in a training and rebuilding role. "

Just correcting, but it was under Liberal watch, Jean Cretien (till 2003), followed by Paul Martin, then turnover to Harper.

I do agree with you re: this point:

"I believe that this war will not be won without a huge sacrifice by all Nato forces. By that I mean a war that could last for another 10 years or more with a continued accupation and a continued loss of our soldiers. Our last soldiers have just pulled out of Croatia after 20 years of being there."

There is so much corruption in Afghanistan, that's the ugly truth of it as sad as that is for the people.

We pull out, maybe the Afghan Army and Afghan police forces can protect Kandahar, but maybe they'll be bought out and bribed-- who's going to continue paying for them? The chains w/i the central government rips them off. Persistent terror from Warlords, Taliban, tribal rivalries, Afghan people caught in between all these forces of oppression.

I think I understand some CF attachment to the good work they've done, the shine and taste of freedom for the Afghan people. When you give with the heart and you see the hearts of the people shine back.

And then, I'm still angry at the Bush/Cheney admin and still, no significant changes regardless of admin-- b/c of the insane economics of the "Military Industrial Complex"-- which Eisenhower tried to warn of.

That whole system is also corrupt. Army serving resource empire expansion.

See documentary "Why We Fight".

Look at it, BUSH family = OIL (now going for world's water resources $ setting up miliatry bases);

Cheney= Haliburton, et all. Corruption.

245

I am familiar with the notion of right wing socialism. If one uses the term “right Wing” to describe conservatives, as is the case with the Conservative Party of Canada, the concept of right wing socialists is obviously self contradictory. The term “right wing socialists” has been used to portray conservatives to be similar to the Nazis. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Conservatives are rightfully accused of wanting to diminish the role of government and of taking a “fend for yourself” approach, hardly the Nazi approach. The reality is the Nazis along with the Bolsheviks and the Chinese Communists were all practising various versions of socialism.

246

There seems to be a discusion underway about peacekeepers.

Based on my experiences, I believe that someone who is charged with standing in between two waring factions, without clear and discernable rules of engagement, other than trying to determine if someone is trying to use deadly force against you, before you are able to make a decision if you can or cannot react;

are in my mind, the very bravest Soldiers of all.

I can only hope to stand in their shadow.

247

Wasn't it our God, our Christian God who's trubulations, whose wisdom and whose grace and sacfice we are suppose to be celebrating this holiday who is supposed to have said;

Blessed are the peacemakers.

248

Try again to get past the maoderator.

"I don't want him to die in vain," Kennedy said.

It's to late , he already died in vain as did his fallen comrades.

Anyone that has lost loved ones to this total fiasco of an ill conceived war in my mind would not more people to suffer needlessly by getting more of them killed. Is that old saying true? The one about misery loving company?

249

Thanks for that. I don't know how you got an idea of my attitude just from me saying stop calling us your children. We're not. That's a fact and I was simply stating it.

As for we need to start loving each other and stop shooting each others heads off. I don't know what dream world you live in but it's not the same world I do. The sad fact of things is there will always be wars. No way around it. It's just reality.

250

«Afghanistan is a true hardship mission with only a few able to endure. The few that did endure need to tell us if it was worth it and with no coercion from bloody capitalists . »

They do tell you, all the time. But you don't listen.

«If they had any wisdom they would have counseled their soldier relatives NOT to go to Afghanistan, and those soldiers would all be alive today. »

What do you think a soldier joins the MILITARY for, exactly? Do you councel your relatives on their job choice, or do you think maybe they should decide that on their own?

251

«What now their sad because they sent their kids off to fight in an illegal war that can't be won? »

Not at all, googles, on any count. They didn't send their kids as that would be legally impossible. Not to mention those who went are not kids but legal adults. And I don't think you're qualified to judge them by any means. Maybe you'll feel better after learning your assumptions are incorrect.

252

«We have always been a peace keeping nation not one that goes to war easily and because other nations feel we should »

Well, we all know that's a load. But feel free to back it up with something other than your vague assumptions. Also explain your previous comment about how the parents were "obviously coerced." Everyone's a fool but you, I guess, even though you have no connection whatsoever to the subject and they have the most immediate connection possible to it. I bow to your expertise.

253

Yes peacemakers through your mouth not weapons. God also said thou shall not kill, especially children. How many kids have died in the mid east in the last 9 years? I would guess that God ain't to happy with our side of the world or the jackasses who got us in this pointless mission to begin with. I kind of get from your comment that we are doing God's work over there, isn't that the problem ,there God they believe in is the motive for their believes and actions. That is the funny part to me we all believe in GOD, but none of us are actually listening to him, but more the desires of man. Now don't get me wrong I know some of our soldiers have good hearts and are trying there best, but to bring God into the equation is wrong.

254

The pipeline's been built-- this was never really about democracy, despite all the good work CF has done for the people of Kandahar, roads, schools, security so that NGO development projects could be completed; attempts to improve the status of women via economic independence, membership in politics and police forces-- some good accomplishments were made, a different way of living.

Still though, in the bigger picture, CF was used as a pawn, the promise of democracy to the people while the OIL pipeline was being completed. No doubt those CF on the ground were making a difference in people's lives, trusting the legitimacy of the Canadian mission. And are about to be betrayed.

It still comes down to US Imperial interests-- they want control of ALL the OIL on the planet, the Middle East playing a big factor in that. It was already stated in Cheney's "energy policy" re: "pre-emptive strikes to secure resources", 9/11 gave that opportunity. The Bush family being OIL barons, long ties with the Saudi's-- and the Bin Laden's. It's as corrupt as corrupt can be and we've been fed some big fat lies.

There will continue to be more stupid wars- The "Military Industrial Complex" to the South of us, is too intertwined in their economy

255

« We have always been a peace keeping nation not one that goes to war easily and because other nations feel we should . We are not asking the U.S. and the other NATO countries to pull out but to give our boys and girls the thanks they deserve and bring them home»

Canada is not able to fight on there own and made an agreement with the US and other alias to help when needed as a coalition force.

And they will keep there commitment to do just that.

In 1956 Canadian policy makers realized that Canada could do little militarily on its own and from that a policy of multilateralism was adopted where Canada would join military efforts as part of a large coalition force.

Canada also chose to stay out of several wars despite the participation of close allies.

Canada declined to fight in Vietnam War and the Second Iraq War although Canada lent indirect support where Canadian citizens served in both conflicts under foreign armies.

256

Try explaining that the regret that my friend, the widow of a soldier who died in Afghanistan, and to my husband, who was one of this soldiers life long friends, that it is best for the Canadian Armed Forces to leave this 'unwinnable war." Our soldier died during a mission that he truly believed in. He believed, rightly so, that he was making a difference in the life of many Afghanis. He was there to help the women and children of Afghanistan to attain a better way of life. He left behind a wife, three children, a mother and two siblings, not to mention many family members and an uncountless number of friends. He made the ultimate sacrifice, and believe me he made that choice because he believed he was making a difference. He was an unbelievably wonderful man who always did the right thing to the end.

Of course I would hate to see any other family lose a husband, father, son or friend. However, I have to believe that my friend lost his life for a worthwhile reason, one he truly believed in, and I would presume that his wife and children hope this also.

We can not leave this mission now. There are too many children and women who need our help in Afghanistan.

257

«Still though, in the bigger picture, CF was used as a pawn, the promise of democracy to the people while the OIL pipeline was being completed.... »

Being as it's not an OIL pipeline whatsoever....

and nobody who disagreed with my points actually said why or how I was wrong. If you were able to do so your disagreement might hold some water. As it is, they're just an admission of vague and biased imagination.

258

I was happy to read the article above, feeling that the families of lost loved ones would someday speak up about the withdrawl from Afganistan. I wonder if any of you who disagree with this ever considered what these families have gone through with their loss.

The soldiers believe whole-heartedly in what they are doing over there and the families of those sons and daughters who have given their lives rallying around these soldiers to continue with this mission.

If the families have the courage to support the men and women in uniform after all they have given themselves, then I believe it is our duty to "Support or Troops" as well. K in Shilo, Manitoba

259

Well they get one vote at the ballot box same as the rest of us, why do the war mangers insist on advocating for the continuation of the killing on Easter Sunday, Christians are rather strange. and scary.

260

A war can be won, a battle can be won, a global religious and economical struggle which goes beyond borders and battlefields cannot be won with force, we are involved in a conflict of attrition, both sides suffer and the side which decides it has had enough first loses, the side with the most dead men on it is the winner, isn't war grand.

261

Having watched the series LOVE HATE AND PROPAGANDA, this sounds like an item for inclusion in its next series. What government department organized this?

262

First deepest condolences to the families and friends of our fallen soldiers.

It seems to me that most of the soldiers that I know want to stay in Afghanistan and complete the mission. As I understand the mission they talk about is that of bringing some sort of order and building a real infrastructure in Afghanistan. I do not agree with my friends but I just felt like mentioning what they have told me.

In my opinion we either need to go into total war mode where our allies and us put our countries on a war footing and put all of our resources into winning the war and reconstruction. Like we did in WW1 and WW2. However the current way of having the military on war footing while the rest of society is business as usual is getting us no where fast and I rather we pull out than continue with this nonsense.

263

The troops should stay until the job and the Mission are both complete.

To hell with the whiners, the taliban plants on Canadian news agencies spewing their hate and discontent, and the peacenics.Get the Job done, do it right, do it for good, and then, and only then, come home to a hero's welcome.

If they just up and leave now, EVERYTHING they have fought and died for will be lost. Credit will be taken by other forces as well.

The troops, the US, Britain, and the SILENT majority of Canadians either want to stay to finish the job, or are significantly unsure about leaving that they feel this nagging seed of douby in their guts telling them that leaving is a bad idea.
Your gut usually is telling the truth. Stay and finish it. Do Canada proud.

264

«Still though, in the bigger picture, CF was used as a pawn, the promise of democracy to the people while the OIL pipeline was being completed....»

This whole oil pipeline deal was cooked up in 1987 when the war with Russia was going on.

And the proposed route was just on paper till the necessary arrangements could be made for a deal to be signed.

But never got off the ground because of the unrest in the region and the treats made against senior officials by the sitting Government after the 1989 war.

This so called proposed pipeline will never be brought into reality until there is peace and security in Afghanistan and taking a page from the history books this will never be the case until there is a government that is not just a brutal regime in power.

265

«Therefore I would argue that these missions should not be called peacekeeping but rather peace observing missions.»

No, they're still peacekeeping, but observation is one of the main requirements for a successful force.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

«Also, as you so correctly point out, the missions only succeed when both parties voluntarily keep the peace i.e.: when peacekeepers are not required. »

I did not say parties. I said leaders of the two nations which leaves the remainder of the population that has to be considered. Factions of the population will not agree with the decisions made by their leaders and it is these groups that a strong peacekeeping force must ensure a secure border. So, while the leaders may agree to a cessation of hostilities, what about the rest of the population.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
« What took place in Rwanda and is now taking place in Dar Fur is unconscionable. »

Agreed. Unfortunately I do not have an in depth knowledge of those places and would hesitate to try and comment. However, my understanding concerning Rwanda was that a communication breakdown existed with the leadership of the peacekeepers and UN HQ.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

By the way, I commented last night about 7:30 P.M., but they didn't see fit to post for some reason.

266

Intéressant votre commentaire :

1. “Quand vous invitez chez-vous des amis ou des membres de votre famille est-ce que vous dite qu'ils occupent votre résidence? C'est la même situation en Afghanistan ou le gouvernement élu a invité la communauté internationalle à venir les aider à défaire les groupe terroristes et extrémistes qui n'acceptent pas que l'Afghanistan puisse un jour vivre dans un contexte démocratique . ”

Question : le gouvernement afghan ACTUEL est formé avant ou après d’entrée des armée américaine en Afghanistan?

2. “Je suis convaincu que s'il n'y aurait pas eu de mandat des Nations Unies approvant le déploiement militaire de l'OTAN, le Canada ne serait pas en Afghanistan tout comme il n'était pas Iraq lorsque les US ont décidé unilatérallement d'intervenir dans ce pays. ”

Question : pourriez-vous nous préciser quel mandat?

3. “ayant fait mes études de Maitrise en droit international et droits humains, ca me chatouille un peu de voir que certains droits individuels de base ne soient pas accordés à tout être humain. Ce qui me dérange le plus c'est quand ces extrémistes veulent exporter et imposer leur idéologie au reste de la planète. C'est ce qu'Al Queda tente de faire, du moins c'est le discour qu'il tient publiquement. ”

Félicitation pour votre Maitrise en droit international et droits humains. A part des mots comme “veulent”, “du moins”, “discour”, pouvez-vous donner quelques exemples concrets (de votre étude de Maitrise)?

Combien de crimes ont été commis sous les noms de la Démocratie et de la Liberté?

267

J'apprécie, tout comme vous, ces maîtrises anonymes, c'est tellement facile. Mais quand on constate la pauvreté de l'argumentation, on soupçonne l'absence de maîtrise du sujet, tout simplement. Quand on nous fait des comparaisons oiseuses entre les barbus à gougounes et le national socialisme, il me pousse des boutons de toutes les couleurs. Quand on sait aussi combien nombreux étaient les décideurs américains favorables à l'Allemagne nazie, au nom du combat contre le communisme, il m'en pousse encore d'autres.

Ce n'est pas d'aujourd'hui qu'on peut constater l'efficacité d'une certaine propagande. La peur mène le monde bien plus certainement que la réflexion, malheureusement, la peur fait plus souvent qu'autrement pencher la balance en faveur de ceux dont les intérêts vont dans le sens contraire de ceux de l'immense majorité, cela me fait aussi pousser des boutons.

268

Pour répondre a votre première question, le gouvernement Afghan actuel a été élu après l'entré des forces Américaines et internationalles.

Comment pourrait-il en être autrement car vous devriez savoir que sous la dictature des Talibans il n'y avait pas d'élection en Afghanistan.

Pour répondre a votre deuxième question voici la liste des résoulutions du Conseil de Séurité des nations Unies qui autorise et légitimise les opération des Force de Sécurité International d'Assistance en Afghanistan (forces de l'OTAN).

Je suis désolé que la liste soit si longue mais je suis surtout surpris de voir que vous en avez jamais entendu parler. Je vous recommenderais de lire au moins la résolution 1890 en date du 8 Octobre 2009, résolution qui prolonge le mandat de la FSIA d'une autre année. je vous ai même trouver le lien internet du Conseil de sécurité.

http://www.un.org/Docs/sc/

a. 1383, 6 Déc 2001
b. 1386, 20 Déc 2001
c. 1390, 16 Jan 2002
d. 1401, 28 Mar 2002
e. 1413, 23 Mai 2002
f. 1444, 27 Nov 202
g. 1510, 13 Oct 2003
h. 1563, 17 Sept 2004
i. 1623, 13 Sept 2005
j. 1707, 12 Sept 2006
k. 1776, 19 sept 2007
l. 1817, 11 Juin 2008
m. 1883, 22 Sept 2008
n. 1890, 8 Oct 2009

Finalement, si vous voulez des exemples concrets tel que le discours que tient Al Queda et sur ses intentions et objectifs, vous devriez faire vous-même vos propres recherches car tout cela est public.

269

« If we give body armour to visiting Canadians, why don't we give it to the local civilians who live there?

The Afghan lives are just as valuable as Foreigners and they are getting killed by the 1000's as collateral damage. »

My father is on this trip. I'd give him my kevlar if I could. Don't take an important topic such as the safety of families of fallen soldiers and try and put an idiotic spin on it.

*****

« I remember when McLaren died... First casualty on my tour, first (and fortunately, thus far, the only) dude I actually knew. It's still a bit haunting whenever a familiar name comes up.

I'm really glad we're able to do this for the families, and I hope the closure helps them at least a little bit.

Rest in peace brothers, and thank you for everything you've done and given. »

Thank you for your service. Mark is my borther and I'm proud of him and all CF soldiers.

*****

« I have no sympathy for Canadians dying in these illegal wars, we should be there. Thousands of innocent people slaughtered & they still can't find the boogie man or any weapons of mass destruction. No tears from this cowboy. »

My brother is one of those soldiers. He was a proud hard working storng Canadian who died trying to help the world become a better place. don't tell people you have no sympathy.

270

« Rwanda was that a communication breakdown existed with the leadership of the peacekeepers and UN HQ. »

There was no breakdown in communications between the peacekeeping forces in Rwanda and the UN HQ in New York.
The UN told the peacekeepers not to interfere that it was an internal matter in Rwanda and not to engage any force unless they were in fear for there own safety.

*

DES FAMILLES SE SOUVIENNENT. 2 avril 2010

http://www.radio-canada.ca/nouvelles/International/2010/04/03/006-hommage-familles-kandahar.shtml

FAMILIES OF FALLEN MOURN AT KANDAHAR. SOME URGE CANADA NOT TO PULL OUT ENTIRELY
April 3, 2010

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2010/04/03/afghanistan-canadian-easter-visit.html